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< QA‎ | Meetings


People Present (lines said):

  • Adam Williamson - adamw (123)
  • Will Woods - wwoods (47)
  • Kamil Paral - kparal (29)
  • Mark McLoughlin - markmc (26)
  • David Pravec - dpravec (25)
  • Jesse Keating - Oxf13 (16)
  • Sebastian Dziallas - sdziallas (10)
  • John Poelstra - poelcat (9)
  • Toshio Kuratomi - abadger1999 (6)
  • Kevin Fenzi - nirik (2)


  • James Laska (jlaska)


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IRC transcript

adamw #startmeeting QA meeting Sep 14 09:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Sep 14 16:00:05 2009 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at Sep 14 09:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. Sep 14 09:00
---zodbot has changed the topic to: (Meeting topic: QA meeting) Sep 14 09:00
*dpravec is here :) Sep 14 09:00
adamw #topic gathering bodies Sep 14 09:00
---zodbot has changed the topic to: gathering bodies (Meeting topic: QA meeting) Sep 14 09:00
adamw alright, which unfortunates have I snared in my nets? Sep 14 09:00
*kparal is caught in the net Sep 14 09:00
adamw wwoods: kparal: oxf13: ping Sep 14 09:01
adamw hi, kamil Sep 14 09:01
*wwoods appears in a puff of smoke Sep 14 09:01
adamw alrighty Sep 14 09:01
adamw #topic previous meeting followup Sep 14 09:02
---zodbot has changed the topic to: previous meeting followup (Meeting topic: QA meeting) Sep 14 09:02
adamw so for anyone who has only vague, possibly hallucinatory memories of our last meeting, there's a wrap-up at QA/Meetings/20090831 Sep 14 09:02
adamw for a quick item, the test-announce list is up and running and being used appropriately, so that's great, thanks again to dpravec for the idea Sep 14 09:03
adamw aside from that, there was one topic i definitely wanted to cover Sep 14 09:03
adamw #topic followup - zsync Sep 14 09:03
---zodbot has changed the topic to: followup - zsync (Meeting topic: QA meeting) Sep 14 09:03
kparal that's my topic, alright Sep 14 09:04
adamw kparal: you were going to investigate the possibility of using zsync to reduce daily Rawhide image download sizes Sep 14 09:04
kparal i have written a blog: Sep 14 09:04
adamw i think most of us probably saw your blog on the topic, but could you summarize? Sep 14 09:04
adamw :) Sep 14 09:04
kparal roughly about 40% of bandwidth can be saved by using zsync Sep 14 09:04
wwoods kparal: awesome post - thanks for getting some hard data Sep 14 09:04
kparal measured on Fedora nightly images Sep 14 09:04
adamw #link Sep 14 09:05
adamw (for the logs) Sep 14 09:05
kparal but I have talked to nirik and he said: Sep 14 09:05
kparal (16:59:19) nirik: kparal: we cannot use it until it's in fedora/epel. Sep 14 09:05
kparal (16:59:36) nirik: we don't use any non fedora/epel software if at all possible. Sep 14 09:05
kparal (17:02:27) nirik: kparal: ok. I had hoped the review request would have moved along somehow, but I don't think it has. ;( Sep 14 09:05
adamw i believe there's a problem involving a variant version of libz, right? Sep 14 09:05
kparal therefore although it would be interesting to use it, it seems that current policy is against it Sep 14 09:06
kparal yes, they use a forked library Sep 14 09:06
kparal same as rsync Sep 14 09:06
adamw what's the URL for the review request? Sep 14 09:06
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*kparal looking Sep 14 09:06
kparal Sep 14 09:06
kparal i believe that's it Sep 14 09:07
adamw #link Sep 14 09:07
kparal "zsync may not ship an embedded zlib " Sep 14 09:07
Oxf13 adamw: I'm here. Sep 14 09:07
adamw there was: "Simo said that getting rsync/zlib into shape to use the system zlib and not break the on-wire format should not be hard." Sep 14 09:07
Oxf13 sorry, I overslept Sep 14 09:07
adamw hi, oxf13 Sep 14 09:07
adamw so if we're still interested in doing this, that looks like the avenue to follow up Sep 14 09:08
adamw are you aware of any technical problems with that, kparal? do you know if anyone's looking into it? Sep 14 09:08
kparal no, i haven't looked at it, i don't know Sep 14 09:08
kparal nirik could have more information though Sep 14 09:09
*nirik looks up. Sep 14 09:09
adamw if you're still willing to push this further, that looks like the next avenue to go down :) Sep 14 09:09
abadger1999 So, unless more has happened since I last checked, no one's contacted upstream rsync to see if they'll maintain a split out libz. Sep 14 09:09
nirik yeah, I think it was waiting for the packager(s) to talk with upstream for zsync and zlib and try and work something out. Sep 14 09:09
abadger1999 adamw: Also, notting later corrected that it was someone other than simo (the package maintainer) who said it wouldn't be hard to make rsync use the standard zlib. Sep 14 09:10
kparal adamw: i think i will leave this task to more appropriate people, but i'm certainly interested in updates Sep 14 09:10
adamw it sounds to me like there may be a motivation gap here Sep 14 09:10
adamw is rsync still shipping a built-in zlib, at this point? is anyone specifically tasked with dealing with that? Sep 14 09:11
abadger1999 My observation as well. Sep 14 09:11
abadger1999 Nope and I don't think it will be without it blocking something. Sep 14 09:12
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adamw hmm. that makes this somewhat more complicated. my inclination would be to try and get a discussion going with all stakeholders, or on -devel-list. any other ideas? Sep 14 09:13
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adamw if not, i'll take an action item to follow up with you guys by email and see if we can come up with a strategy Sep 14 09:14
kparal on my blog Simon Wesp writes he tried to include zsync to fedora (User:Cassmodiah). he could be also interested if we contact him Sep 14 09:14
abadger1999 There's two ways forward -- either the forked zlib comes out into its own package or rsync/zsync figures out how to use the standard zlib. Sep 14 09:14
adamw yes, that's Sep 14 09:14
buggbot Bug 490140: medium, medium, ---, redhat-bugzilla, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zsync - Client-side implementation of the rsync algorithm Sep 14 09:14
adamw #link Sep 14 09:14
buggbot Bug 490140: medium, medium, ---, redhat-bugzilla, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zsync - Client-side implementation of the rsync algorithm Sep 14 09:14
adamw abadger1999: yes, what i'm interested in is how we get someone to actually start moving forward on one of those fronts :) Sep 14 09:14
abadger1999 who's going to do the work for either of those is the question. Sep 14 09:15
adamw right. looks like we agree on the situation, we just need to figure out how to address it. ok. let's follow up on that after the meeting. Sep 14 09:15
adamw aside from that, on the larger topic, i did have one more question Sep 14 09:15
adamw assuming we got zsync in place and everything, how would we do it exactly? we've established we can save a decent amount of space between any two reasonably close images, but has anyone considered the most efficient system for providing particular deltas? Sep 14 09:16
adamw things would get out of hand rather fast from a storage / organization perspective if we tried to provide deltas from every image to every later image... Sep 14 09:16
kparal this is not about providing deltas Sep 14 09:16
kparal the zsync file is generated only from the source file Sep 14 09:16
kparal nothing more Sep 14 09:16
adamw oh, it works without providing delta files? ahhh. i misunderstood that. Sep 14 09:17
adamw ok, that makes it easier. Sep 14 09:17
kparal the differences are computed on the client Sep 14 09:17
adamw ok. from my side the topic's covered, then. any other comments? Sep 14 09:17
kparal the whole command it $zsyncmake <bigfile> -o bigfile.zsync Sep 14 09:17
adamw ok, then - moving on Sep 14 09:18
adamw wwoods, oxf13 - you guys ready to do an autoqa update? Sep 14 09:18
Oxf13 I'm not.... Sep 14 09:18
wwoods sure Sep 14 09:19
adamw we can do another topic first and come back to it later in the meeting if it'd help? Sep 14 09:19
wwoods so autoqa is still doing its thing - see the results list Sep 14 09:19
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wwoods looks like our ppc host might be down - or maybe we didn't get a ppc tree today? Sep 14 09:19
adamw #topic autoqa update Sep 14 09:19
---zodbot has changed the topic to: autoqa update (Meeting topic: QA meeting) Sep 14 09:19
wwoods I'll look into it Sep 14 09:19
wwoods jlaska's on vacation for a couple weeks so I'm helping with autoqa monitor duties as well as development Sep 14 09:20
adamw (remember we had no meeting last week so anything from the last _two_ weeks is news) Sep 14 09:20
wwoods anyway: Sep 14 09:20
wwoods ooh let me check my records for a second Sep 14 09:20
Oxf13 looks like no ppc images Sep 14 09:21
wwoods Okay so: we fixed up the email output to show tracebacks when they happen Sep 14 09:21
adamw ooh. that's awesome. Sep 14 09:21
wwoods fixed up the install test so it monitors both the serial console and the logs Sep 14 09:21
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Oxf13 I don't see images for any other arch either, so maybe I'm looking in the wrong place Sep 14 09:21
wwoods install test will end immediately when it sees the "installation exited abnormally" message Sep 14 09:22
dpravec wwoods: great news Sep 14 09:22
wwoods Oxf13: so there's rats_sanity test results for today for x86_64 and i386 Sep 14 09:22
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wwoods which indicates that the repodata updated, at the very least Sep 14 09:22
wwoods both failed, though Sep 14 09:22
Oxf13 repodata yes, images not so much it seems Sep 14 09:22
wwoods right, no images appeared, which is why rats_install never even ran Sep 14 09:23
wwoods Sep 14 09:23
wwoods we have depsolving problems in the critpath Sep 14 09:23
wwoods so we're on full red alert for today's rawhide Sep 14 09:23
wwoods heh Sep 14 09:23
Oxf13 python-cryptsetup-0.0.9-2.fc12.i686 from anacondarepo has depsolving problems --> Missing Dependency: is needed by package python-cryptsetup-0.0.9-2.fc12.i686 (anacondarepo) Sep 14 09:23
Oxf13 Error: Missing Dependency: is needed by package python-cryptsetup-0.0.9-2.fc12.i686 (anacondarepo) Sep 14 09:23
Oxf13 so, somebody fubared the critical path Sep 14 09:23
adamw nice to see how quickly autoqa can be used to pinpoint a problem :) Sep 14 09:24
wwoods indeed Sep 14 09:24
Oxf13 cryptsetup-luks got a soname bump on the 11th. Sep 14 09:24
wwoods so it would be nice if there was a simple summary of these things.. like the 'israwhidebroken' page we've talked about Sep 14 09:25
wwoods I started writing a TurboGears app to handle that stuff.. last week I guess? Sep 14 09:25
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Oxf13 and nobody bumped python-cryptsetup to match. Sep 14 09:25
adamw right, at the last meeting you had that on the list of 'things to do next' Sep 14 09:25
wwoods I've got a personal git repo that contains the code I've been working on Sep 14 09:26
wwoods which, er, I can't seem to find a good URL for at the moment Sep 14 09:26
adamw heh :) Sep 14 09:26
dpravec wwoods: icannot open ... (connecting to ... for few minutes) Sep 14 09:26
Oxf13 wait, maybe I'm wrong in my investigation. Need more time to look Sep 14 09:27
wwoods ah: git:// Sep 14 09:27
Oxf13 no, I'm right. *sigh* Sep 14 09:27
wwoods so far so good - it's doing FAS auth properly, has a list of the known rawhide tests, etc. Sep 14 09:28
wwoods I'm working on automated result submission Sep 14 09:28
dpravec wwoods: do you have publicly accessible web page with results? Sep 14 09:28
wwoods dpravec: not yet, no Sep 14 09:28
wwoods that's what I'm working on Sep 14 09:28
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wwoods also test1250 is gone - it changed hostname Sep 14 09:28
wwoods it's test1185 now Sep 14 09:28
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Oxf13 god I really really want this holding ground between builds and rawhide so that we can run these test and throw out builds that break shit. Sep 14 09:29
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wwoods Oxf13: definitely, but we have to be confident in our tests first.. and have the tests running on something public Sep 14 09:29
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wwoods it would be pretty great if the rawhide tests could finish up by telling the builder whether or not to sync out the tree Sep 14 09:29
wwoods we're much, much closer to that now Sep 14 09:30
Oxf13 wwoods: I think it's too late by that point (sync the tree or not) Sep 14 09:30
wwoods Oxf13: well, with the current watcher, yes Sep 14 09:30
Oxf13 wwoods: the simple test of "does this build break deps", particularly in the critical path, should be an easy one to use to block builds from being tagged Sep 14 09:31
wwoods ah, I see what you mean now Sep 14 09:31
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wwoods yeah, once we're more confident in the tests and the rest of the autoqa system, and it lives in the Infrastructure proper Sep 14 09:31
wwoods then we can work on that Sep 14 09:31
wwoods IIRC we have some hardware on order to get put in the lab for this Sep 14 09:31
wwoods err s/lab/colo/ Sep 14 09:31
adamw alright, brainstorming we can do outside the meeting :) Sep 14 09:31
wwoods but jlaska knows the details about that better than I do, so I can't say more Sep 14 09:32
wwoods anyway - autoqa stuff is coming along, look for a public dashboard of rawhide status coming in the next few weeks Sep 14 09:32
adamw so any specific upcoming changes we didn't cover yet, or is it basically continuing to work on the bits? Sep 14 09:32
adamw great Sep 14 09:32
adamw thanks a lot Sep 14 09:32
wwoods also a public instance of the autotest/autoqa stuff Sep 14 09:32
wwoods in the meantime keep watching the reports on the autoqa-results list Sep 14 09:32
adamw awesomeness Sep 14 09:33
wwoods and if you need details about a failure ask someone @redhat to read (or get you) the detailed logs for a given test Sep 14 09:33
adamw #topic test day update Sep 14 09:33
---zodbot has changed the topic to: test day update (Meeting topic: QA meeting) Sep 14 09:33
adamw so this is my starring role! Sep 14 09:33
wwoods aim the spotlight! fire the pyrotechnics! Sep 14 09:34
adamw =) Sep 14 09:34
*adamw rises through the stage floor wearing a flowing white cape Sep 14 09:34
adamw so, uh :) Sep 14 09:34
adamw at the last meeting, the Sugar on a Stick test day was still upcoming Sep 14 09:34
adamw #link Test_Day:2009-09-03_SoaS Sep 14 09:35
adamw I don't know if sdziallas is around...? Sep 14 09:35
adamw (he said meaningfully) Sep 14 09:35
adamw i guess not! Sep 14 09:36
adamw well, I was there, and it went off pretty smoothly. so that's nice. Sep 14 09:36
*sdziallas is Sep 14 09:36
adamw ah, here he is :) Sep 14 09:36
sdziallas adamw: hey :) Sep 14 09:36
adamw anything in particular to report about the soas test day? Sep 14 09:36
adamw did you find it a useful event? Sep 14 09:36
sdziallas adamw: well, it was... awesome! Sep 14 09:36
sdziallas adamw: I think I should follow up with jlaska or you (and probably provide some e-mail report or so; sorry, I'm just a little swamped with work) Sep 14 09:37
sdziallas adamw: I provided pretty valuable feedback, helped us to get to know quite some bugs and even let us preview the semantic infra use in Fedora :) Sep 14 09:37
adamw we've been trying to send an email report on each test day out to -test-list - nothing dramatic, just a quick round-up and a list of bugs produced with the command on the SOP page Sep 14 09:37
adamw but it's not a big thing Sep 14 09:37
adamw ahhh yeah, semantic - i forgot about that Sep 14 09:37
adamw how did you find it? was it a good way for you to access the results? any problems with it? Sep 14 09:38
sdziallas adamw: sounds like it's something to work on (the report) Sep 14 09:38
sdziallas adamw: I do like the way. having set it up with mchua and jlaska in a sprint session just a day before the test day started, I guess it was somewhat time consuming. Sep 14 09:39
dpravec sdziallas: the report is not that hard. read SOP - you will find some example and doc there Sep 14 09:39
sdziallas adamw: but I believe if it's properly set up and well designed, it could be an awesome possibility to provide feedback Sep 14 09:39
adamw great Sep 14 09:39
adamw i think if we used it regularly for each event we could probably streamline the setup process Sep 14 09:40
*sdziallas nods; that would be great! Sep 14 09:40
adamw when jlaska is back we should probably get together and discuss the pros and cons, but sounds like it was a productive experiment! Sep 14 09:40
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sdziallas adamw: yeah, definitely! I'd be happy to help there... (and mchua is prolly interested, too) Sep 14 09:41
adamw great, thanks a lot Sep 14 09:41
adamw so, from my side - last week was test week Sep 14 09:41
adamw we had one test day each for nvidia, ati and intel Sep 14 09:42
adamw i haven't done a full follow-up yet - i'm planning to do that this week - but turnout was high and it was pretty lively for each day Sep 14 09:42
adamw jlaska was keeping count and mentioned there were over 100 bug reports generated from the three days in total, so that', i suppose :) Sep 14 09:42
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adamw so i'll be going through and triaging them, then doing an email report and following up on any really critical issues that emerged. Sep 14 09:43
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adamw we have two test days coming up this week Sep 14 09:44
adamw from my side, wednesday will be audio/pulseaudio test day Sep 14 09:44
adamw i'm going to have to pull that one together rather quickly, i don't have a page up for it yet, but plan to get it all done by tomorrow at the latest. Sep 14 09:44
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dpravec adamw: that one is very important Sep 14 09:45
adamw dpravec: yeah, i know - unfortunately i had trouble getting it scheduled, due to the packed out test day schedule and lennart being quite busy Sep 14 09:45
dpravec Xorg drivers and sound systems are typically big PITA for endusers Sep 14 09:45
adamw believe me, I know :) Sep 14 09:45
adamw that's why I wanted to do a sound test day, we haven't had one before Sep 14 09:45
dpravec good Sep 14 09:45
dpravec adamw: can i help somehow? Sep 14 09:46
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adamw off the top of my head i don't know, but if something comes up while i'm working on it i'll let you know - thanks for the offerf Sep 14 09:46
dpravec ok Sep 14 09:46
adamw of course, the usual - getting people to come out and get involved - is important Sep 14 09:46
dpravec i will try Sep 14 09:46
adamw sound is one of those things like xorg which affects everyone, so if everyone could come along and get others to come too that'd be great Sep 14 09:46
adamw ok, aside from that, thursday will be virtualization test day Sep 14 09:47
dpravec setup the page fast so we can announce it on community servers Sep 14 09:47
adamw yes, that's the first priority Sep 14 09:47
adamw virt test day has been organized mostly by markmc and jlaska, neither of whom are around, unfortunately Sep 14 09:48
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adamw anyone here has been involved / knows much about that event? Sep 14 09:48
adamw #link Test_Day:2009-09-17_Virtualization Sep 14 09:48
kparal markmc is online, i'm talking to him Sep 14 09:49
kparal can tell him to join Sep 14 09:49
kparal i'm helping him to build custom livecd Sep 14 09:49
dpravec virtualisation is important for me Sep 14 09:49
adamw kparal: if you could that'd be great Sep 14 09:49
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dpravec it still sucks when you have virtual hosts on network and you want to use network manager... Sep 14 09:50
kparal say hello to markmc Sep 14 09:50
markmc hello to markmc Sep 14 09:50
markmc kparal, oh, not me ? :) Sep 14 09:50
dpravec :) Sep 14 09:50
adamw hi mark :) Sep 14 09:50
markmc dpravec, what sucks ? Sep 14 09:50
adamw so we're doing a test day update, jlaska is away, so we need someone to tell us about virt test day on thursday Sep 14 09:51
adamw is the planning all in hand? Sep 14 09:51
markmc okay Sep 14 09:51
dpravec having network manager combined with virtual hosts available on network Sep 14 09:51
markmc so, we're fleshing it out here Test_Day:2009-09-17_Virtualization Sep 14 09:51
markmc idea is a developer is going to own each sub-page and will write test cases Sep 14 09:51
markmc e.g. Test_Day:2009-09-17_Virtualization_libguestfs Sep 14 09:51
dpravec well, having virtual hosts available on network is not really as easy as it should be Sep 14 09:52
markmc kparal is helping me build a livecd Sep 14 09:52
markmc and we'll give people instructions on how to mount (e.g. nfs) storage for guest images Sep 14 09:52
adamw excellent...looks good Sep 14 09:52
markmc apart from that, it should be a pretty standard test day Sep 14 09:52
adamw are there any areas where we (qa) could help you out at all? especially since jlaska's away now, anything we need to take up the slack on? Sep 14 09:52
markmc it went last time, but we tried to cover too much basic virt testing Sep 14 09:53
markmc so this time, it's mostly new features Sep 14 09:53
markmc except live migration which was horribly broken last time Sep 14 09:53
markmc adamw, not really; test cases and the livecd are the two big todo items Sep 14 09:54
markmc adamw, it'd be great if qa folks could watch the wiki pages and help clean up stuff as people add test cases maybe Sep 14 09:54
*markmc thinks of anything else needing doing Sep 14 09:54
adamw ok - i will try and find time to give it a couple of look overs before the day, anyone else who likes to clean up wiki pages please do also :) Sep 14 09:54
markmc adamw, turning up on the day, of course would be great, but that's a given Sep 14 09:54
adamw as always Sep 14 09:55
markmc dpravec, Features/Shared_Network_Interface Sep 14 09:55
markmc dpravec, I think that's basically what you mean Sep 14 09:55
markmc dpravec, we've a lot of the infrastructure in place for that in F12, but not quite there Sep 14 09:55
dpravec ic Sep 14 09:56
markmc dpravec, Features/Network_Interface_Management Sep 14 09:56
dpravec for now i am using my own bridge and i live without NM Sep 14 09:56
markmc dpravec, we'll be updating these instructions: Sep 14 09:56
markmc Sep 14 09:56
markmc dpravec, to use the virsh netif-* commands to set up a bridge Sep 14 09:56
markmc dpravec, you should be able to use nm - just make the bridge NM_CONTROLLED=no or whatever Sep 14 09:57
dpravec i used howto from the last url you gave me Sep 14 09:57
dpravec but its not good for novices :) Sep 14 09:57
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dpravec markmc: that didnt help much Sep 14 09:58
adamw details we can discuss outside of the meeting...we're running short on time :) Sep 14 09:58
dpravec and firefox is telling me i am ofline :) Sep 14 09:58
markmc adamw, indeed, sorry Sep 14 09:58
adamw no problem Sep 14 09:58
adamw thanks a lot for the update Sep 14 09:58
dpravec markmc: i am talking also to NM people Sep 14 09:58
dpravec and i hope this will move, but i see it will take time Sep 14 09:58
adamw i think that's all on test days...there's no FnF test day upcoming Sep 14 09:58
adamw any other points on test days? Sep 14 09:58
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adamw ok then Sep 14 09:59
adamw #topic open floor Sep 14 09:59
---zodbot has changed the topic to: open floor (Meeting topic: QA meeting) Sep 14 09:59
adamw open floor time! anyone have questions / concerns / suggestions to raise? Sep 14 09:59
poelcat adamw: haven't read backscroll... did you mention blocker bug day this friday? Sep 14 10:00
poelcat s/day/meeting Sep 14 10:00
adamw aha, indeed i didn't - sorry Sep 14 10:00
adamw thanks, poelcat: there will be another f12 beta blocker bug review meeting this friday Sep 14 10:00
adamw 1600 UTC? Sep 14 10:01
*poelcat will send announce and volunteer to run meeting unless someoe else wants to :) Sep 14 10:01
poelcat adamw: 1500 UTC I think Sep 14 10:01
adamw poelcat: that would be awesome, thank you Sep 14 10:01
poelcat yes... 8 PDT/11EDT/1500 UTC Sep 14 10:01
adamw there was a suggestion i remember seeing somewhere - we should go through f12blocker bugs as well as f12beta, to see if any need to be promoted Sep 14 10:02
*poelcat defines "run meeting" as call out the bugs... you all have a better grasp of technical details :) Sep 14 10:02
adamw we did that for the alpha meetings, but forgot to do it at the first beta meeting Sep 14 10:02
poelcat adamw: okay, i'll add that to the agenda and list of bugs to run through Sep 14 10:02
adamw great Sep 14 10:02
poelcat hopefully f12block isn't too long Sep 14 10:02
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adamw hopefully : Sep 14 10:03
adamw :) Sep 14 10:03
poelcat that's why we finished in record time last friday :) Sep 14 10:03
adamw so yes, everyone please come out to the review meeting if you can - the more eyes the better Sep 14 10:03
adamw ok, any other open floor topics? Sep 14 10:04
adamw in that case... Sep 14 10:06
*adamw waves gavel of doom Sep 14 10:06
adamw #endmeeting Sep 14 10:06
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