From Fedora Project Wiki

< QA‎ | Meetings


People Present (lines said):

  • jlaska (111)
  • adamw (38)
  • wwoods (25)
  • Oxf13 (24)
  • kparal1 (17)
  • skvidal (15)
  • buggbot (5)
  • poelcat (4)
  • zodbot (2)
  • brunowolff_ (1)
  • Sir_Limpsalot (1)


  • Liam Li (lili)
  • He Rui (rhe)
  • David Pravec (dpravec)


Preview Meeting follow-up

Anaconda dependency follow-up

Adamw reminded the group that we hadn't yet followed up on the previous topic raised by dpravec around installer dependencies changing out from under it.

F13 noted that there were discussions with RHT management reminding folks that it was too late to make general (or feature) changes in F-12.

Jlaska asked what specific issues initiated this discussion. Adamw and f13 noted the recent nfs the lvm changes.

AutoQA update

Wwoods wired up the UI, so members of the 'qa' group can now add/remove test results for the manual tests (see [ screenshot). Also decided to defer:

  1. sweet ajax UI junk and
  2. automating the yum/network tests until after completes

Reminder of the current roadmap: Current tasks include:

  1. get links back from israwhidebroken to autotest
  2. get it all running in production in public

Jlaska took an action item to sync up w/ mmcgrath to identify next steps when the AutoQA hardware arrives in PHX2.

Packagediff update

Next, kparal updated the group on his packagediff activities. The intention is to alert on important changes between packages, hopefully part of autoqa project in the future.

Currently working 2 tickets:

  1. - Investigate what rpmdiff offers to our tests
  2. - Write rpmdiff test

The code currently highlights changed dependencies, changed config files, changed file modes and such stuff. Wwoods suggested also falgging added/removed binaries.

Some discussion surfaced around whether Kparal's efforts were based on an older RHT internal project called 'rpmdiff'. Kparal's efforts are entirely based on the rpmlint implementation of rpmdiff. Kparal is currently waiting for some feedback on a few rpmdiff issues. Skvidal recommended reaching out to ville skytta.

F-12-Beta QA Readiness

Jlaska asked the team for help preparing for the upcoming Go/No Go decision at the upcoming rel-eng meeting. The team informally walked the remaining F12Beta blocker bugs.

F13 asked if any blocker bug candidates came out of the Test Day. Aside from RHBZ #517260 it wasn't clear yet whether any of the recorded test day bugs ( where beta blockers. Jlaska took an action item to catch up with clumens to help review the list. So far, the only Test day bugs raised to the beta blocker list are:

  • RHBZ #526842 ASSIGNED - Firstboot not run after installation
  • RHBZ #517260 ASSIGNED - liveinst fails at partitioning screeen
  • RHBZ #523862 CLOSED RAWHIDE - mdadm craps at boot

Adamw expressed concern around the missing panel icon bug noted on the list by Chuck Anderson (see Turns out this is RHBZ #510249. Mclasen already evaluated and recommended fixing this issue post-Beta.

Jlaska asked for wwoods and skvidal expertise on rhe's preupgrade RHBZ #526208. It's a bug in the F-11 package, but would potentially impact anyone using preupgrade to upgrade from F-11 to F-12. Skvidal intended to investigate the UI issue after the meeting.

Jlaska asked if RHBZ #526535 should be moved into MODIFIED given a package was built and testing requested on fedora-devel-list (see Adamw asked what the policy is with regards to MODIFIED bugs. Does MODIFIED mean a package is built and a tag request is submitted? F13 proposed that MODIFIED means a fix is available, but not yet tested or included in the product. This seems to hold when adding the freeze 'tagging' procedure into the mix.

Upcoming QA events

Jlaska did a speedy walk through of upcoming QA related events

  • 2009-10-05 - F12 Beta go/no_go meeting (@ 18:00pm - rel-eng meeting)
  • 2009-10-06 - BugZappers/Meetings
  • 2009-10-07 - Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting
  • 2009-10-08 - RAID Test Day
  • 2009-10-13 - F12 Beta availability

Open floor - <your topic here>

No open discussion topics were raised.

Action items

  1. jlaska to catch up with mmcgrath on delivery of autoqa hardware to PHX
  2. jlaska - sync-up with clumens to identify any blocking issues from
  3. poelcat to check in on beta blocker status of 510249

IRC transcript

jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 16:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Oct 5 16:00:39 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at 16:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00
jlaska #topic Gathering able bodied persons 16:00
adamw morning 16:00
* kparal1 says hi 16:01
adamw that topic is discriminatory against disabled qa people. 16:01
adamw i say this only half in jest, because, well, it actually is =) 16:01
kparal1 but only for english people, i myself didn't get that :) 16:01
jlaska adamw: Well certainly no ill will intended ... of course will adjust in the future 16:02
adamw interesting where a running joke can get you, hehe 16:02
jlaska ;) 16:02
jlaska I thought I was safe not limiting the meeting to gender 16:03
adamw ah, it's never that easy 16:03
jlaska indeed 16:03
jlaska okay, who else do we have 16:03
adamw aaaaaanyway 16:03
jlaska I sense the presence of wwoods ... lurking in the shadows 16:03
* wwoods rolls a Stealth check 16:04
jlaska Oxf13 is around too I believe 16:04
* Oxf13 16:04
jlaska We'll be missing dpravec today 16:05
jlaska so let's get started 16:05
jlaska #topic Previous Meeting Follow-up 16:05
jlaska First ... an apology 16:05
jlaska there will only be 1 QA meeting right now ... contrary to the dueling agendas posted to the list 16:05
* adamw leads his followers to #confederate-fedora-meeting 16:06
jlaska adamw: take the action items with you please! 16:06
adamw =) 16:06
jlaska I didn't have any recorded action items from last weeks meeting 16:06
* jlaska looking at 16:06
jlaska adamw: was there anything not recorded that you wanted to discuss from last week? 16:07
adamw nothing specific from last week that i can think of, but we could follow up on the discussion of development issues from a couple of weeks ago, now more people are here 16:07
adamw esp. oxf13 16:07
adamw Oxf13: you remember that? the talk about anaconda dependencies and rhel changes parachuted into fedora... 16:07
Oxf13 vaguely 16:08
adamw you mentioned there were meetings at which some of those issues could be raised - gone anywhere with that? 16:08
Oxf13 yeah, we re-affirmed to RHT management that it is too late to make feature changes in F12 16:09
adamw great 16:09
adamw was there any pushback? 16:09
Oxf13 not yet 16:10
jlaska I don't have the full history of this discussion topic ... was this anaconda specific ... or general changes? 16:10
adamw jlaska: it was a wide-ranging discussion :) 16:10
jlaska that's my guess based on recent f-d-list threads 16:11
adamw jlaska: it started with someone (dpravec iirc) raising anaconda team's concerns that things anaconda depended on were being changed in major ways too close to the beta 16:11
Oxf13 eg nfs 16:11
jlaska gotcha .. yeah a fair concern 16:11
adamw it broadened out a bit from there into general issues causing undesirable changes in late pre-pre-release phases 16:11
jlaska lvm 16:11
adamw yeah that stuff 16:12
Oxf13 right and lvm 16:12
adamw though the discussion was right before the lvm storm broke iirc 16:12
jlaska dcantrell has some interesting testing that's maturing ... but could potentially be used to highlight these types of issues in the future 16:12
jlaska might be worth having a presentation/discussion as his tests mature at FUDCon perhaps 16:13
adamw roger 16:13
jlaska certainly won't solve all the worlds problems, but might help give the anaconda team a heads up when things they rely on are changed out from under them 16:13
jlaska #idea How can the QA team support dcantrell's anaconda A[BP]I checking routines 16:14
jlaska any other points on this topic? 16:14
jlaska if so ... we might choose to make this a repeating topic 16:15
adamw i'd rather not, meetings are long enough as it isw 16:15
adamw i just wanted to follow up on the discussion, and we couldn't do it last week as jesse wasn't here 16:15
jlaska roger 16:15
jlaska alrighty ... next up we've got a quick check-in on the AutoQA front 16:16
jlaska #topic AutoQA update 16:16
jlaska wwoods: you've got the floor 16:16
wwoods let's see 16:16
wwoods last week I wired up the UI, so members of the 'qa' group can now add/remove test results for the manual tests 16:17
wwoods (this is for the israwhidebroken mini-frontend) 16:17
jlaska #link 16:17
wwoods we decided to defer a) sweet ajax UI junk and b) automating the yum/network tests until later 16:18
wwoods so here's the current roadmap: 16:18
wwoods basically it comes down to: 1) get links back from israwhidebroken to autotest 16:18
wwoods and then 2) get it all running in production in public 16:19
jlaska #action jlaska to catch up with mmcgrath on delivery of autoqa hardware to PHX 16:19
wwoods yeah there's rumors that our autoqa hardware may be arriving soon? 16:19
jlaska I got word on Friday that "it's in the mail" 16:20
wwoods nice 16:20
jlaska definitely! I took an action to sync up with infrastructure to figure out what we need to do once the hardware lands 16:20
wwoods so yeah, getting the backreferences to autotest turns out to be nontrivial but I've been talking with upstream and we'll work something out 16:21
wwoods after that it's all ready to go into "production" 16:21
* jlaska queues the suspense music 16:21
wwoods for values of "production" roughly equal to "public early beta" 16:21
wwoods still: woo! 16:22
jlaska right on ... I second that 'woo' 16:22
wwoods think that's all from mem 16:22
wwoods err, me 16:22
jlaska wwoods: thanks for the update! 16:22
jlaska kparal1: any updates on the packagediff piece you're investigating? 16:22
kparal1 well, i have started to write a test for comparing old and new rpm package 16:23
kparal1 it will be hopefully part of autqa in the future 16:23
kparal1 the intention is to alert on important changes between packages 16:23
kparal1 currently i'm announcing changed dependencies, changed config files, changed file modes and such stuff 16:24
wwoods nice! 16:24
kparal1 developing goes slowly because i can't devote it much time but i hope it will be usable soon 16:25
wwoods adding/removing binaries should definitely be announced as well 16:25
kparal1 yes, that's in the plan: 16:25
* wwoods reviews 16:25
kparal1 you can see my code, i have put it online: 16:25
wwoods pretty sure we talked about all that stuff before so I'm sure it's all here 16:25
kparal1 it's just a first shot and i'm learning python with it, so be mercifull :) 16:26
kparal1 i think that's all from me 16:26
jlaska kparal1: hah! you've taken on quite a challenge for first time python (e.g. rpm libs) 16:26
kparal1 also there are some bugs waiting in rpmdiff to be fixed, but the rpmlint project seems a little dead now (trac not working properly, mailing list halted) 16:27
kparal1 but hopefully skvidal will help me with that 16:27
* skvidal looks up 16:27
skvidal kparal1: ah yes - your email from last week 16:28
Oxf13 kparal1: is this working from existing rpmdiff code? 16:28
skvidal Oxf13: not the rhel rpmdiff 16:28
Oxf13 right 16:28
skvidal Oxf13: the rpmlint, rpmdiff 16:28
Oxf13 that one is still closed 16:28
kparal1 Oxf13: yes, i'm using the public rpmdiff in my script 16:28
Oxf13 *stab* 16:28
skvidal Oxf13: and will, afaict, never be opened 16:28
jlaska in my best ed mcmahon "you sir, are correct sir" 16:29
skvidal kparal1: I think I should talk to Ville - see if he has any thoughts 16:29
kparal1 Ville is irc nick? 16:29
skvidal jlaska: you realize how old that makes you sound that 1. you know who ed mcmahon is 2. you know who he would say that to 3. you know the snl bit about that 16:29
skvidal kparal1: he's almost never on irc - ville skytta 16:29
jlaska skvidal: ;) 16:29
kparal1 skvidal: ok, thx 16:29
skvidal kparal1: when he is on irc he's scop 16:30
jlaska alrighty ... aside from just a quick run through of upcoming QA events ... I wanted to spend some time surveying the group for our Beta readiness 16:31
jlaska #topic F-12-Beta QA readiness 16:31
jlaska Oxf13 will be hosting a go/no_go discussion on the beta today during the rel-eng meeting (@ 18:00 UTC) 16:31
jlaska but I thought we could spend a few minutes here making sure that all the _hot_ issues are on the radar ... and see if anything is stuck in process 16:31
Oxf13 looking pretty no-go at this point 16:32
adamw yeah, not much movement on bugs over the weekend :/ 16:32
jlaska pulling up the F12Beta blocker bug report ... 16:32
jlaska 16:32
Oxf13 still no first boot, nm-gnome crashes, ppc64 netboot missing, and aliveinst failure? 16:32
brunowolff_ mdadm got fixed 16:32
Oxf13 adamw: party my fault. I didn't look at the tag queue last night, got tied up with family stuff 16:32
jlaska and the util-linux-ng issue has a build+tag request in I believe 16:33
Oxf13 yeah, some stuff needs testing to clear the tag queue 16:33
adamw hum 16:33
adamw important point: that's an entirely different networkmanager crash report from the one we worked on in the meeting 16:34
adamw it's been tagged as a blocker independently 16:34
adamw may be a dupe of the other report 16:34
adamw i will check 16:34
Oxf13 ok 16:34
jlaska while adamw's looking for that NM issue ... are there any other bugs that aren't represented on the current blocker list that folks are concerned about? 16:35
adamw that 'invisible icons' bug from the list looks icky 16:37
adamw though i'm not clear on the exact symptoms 16:37
Oxf13 jlaska: anything come up in the anaconda test day? 16:38
jlaska 16:38
* Sir_Limpsalot sneaks inn.. 16:38
Oxf13 as far as blocker worthy bugs 16:39
jlaska Oxf13: a few bugs ... but don't have enough info yet as to whether they are common or exceptions 16:40
adamw hi there 16:40
jlaska we have the ongoing pain with yaboot not properly booting after some scenarios (bug#523754) 16:40
buggbot Bug is not accessible. 16:40
jlaska hmm, that's not the right bz ... try bug#523754 16:41
jlaska oh perms on the bz ... odd 16:41
adamw that's the same number you just said 16:41
jlaska sure is :) 16:41
jlaska there's a few like that against Fedora ... specific to ppc ... and I Think they're all related to the same core yaboot issue 16:42
jlaska this is going off my gut feel from testing, so could be wrong 16:42
jlaska it's not a new problem though, so I wouldn't raise this is a beta blocker 16:42
jlaska it looks like the anaconda-devel team has already started working the test day bugs ... I'll see if I can get clumens to help identify and alarming storage issues in the list 16:43
jlaska #action jlaska - sync-up with clumens to identify any blocking issues from 16:44
jlaska there were a few RAID related issues, but as brunowolff_ said ... a fix is already tagged for that 16:44
jlaska adamw: anything else on the invisible icon thread? 16:45
jlaska mclasen called out bug#510249 on this issue 16:45
buggbot Bug medium, low, ---, mclasen, ASSIGNED, Missing panel applets on gnome login; "Glib-GObject-CRITICAL" messages.... 16:46
jlaska which is currently marked as a F12Blocker 16:46
adamw jlaska: no, i just saw it this morning, haven't looked into it much yet 16:46
jlaska The live install experience has become pretty annoying ... not sure if other see that as well 16:46
jlaska in that nautilus windows keep popping up while you're formatting the disks (bug#527091) 16:47
buggbot Bug medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, Installer causes a number of popups when creating filesystems 16:47
poelcat jlaska: should 510249 be a beta blocker? 16:47
* poelcat read the bug last night... wasn't sure 16:47
jlaska poelcat: that's the one from the thread adamw noted 16:48
poelcat right... it's blocking final, but not beta 16:48
jlaska claimed fixed for Alpha, then reopened it seems 16:49
jlaska someone want to take an action on this to follow-up w/ mclasen on this bug? 16:49
* poelcat will post to f-desktop-list 16:51
jlaska #action poelcat to check in on beta blocker status of 510249 16:51
jlaska poelcat: thx! 16:51
jlaska there are several other action items we addressed in the Friday bug meeting ... 16:51
jlaska in response to that meeting ... there is a new NM available for testing from dcbw (see 16:52
jlaska testing against that would be appreciated! 16:53
jlaska any other beta concerns not currently on the list? 16:53
Oxf13 I need to get a new fedora-release out there 16:54
Oxf13 forgot to do that 16:54
jlaska wwoods: I noticed that still has the Oct 02 images ... I gather rawhide hasn't built since then? 16:54
Oxf13 today has been built, but it is taking a long time to sync 16:55
Oxf13 due to signed rpms 16:55
jlaska Oxf13: gotcha, thx 16:55
wwoods jlaska: that'd be my first guess 16:56
jlaska wwoods: did you or skvidal have any thoughts on that F-11 preupgrade bug that F-12-Beta testers would hit? 16:56
skvidal jlaska: which one 16:57
wwoods haven't had time to trace it 16:57
skvidal jlaska: there are 2 bugs I've seen 16:57
jlaska I think it's bug#526208 16:57
buggbot Bug low, low, ---, skvidal, ASSIGNED, preupgrade failed from old release(f10, f11) 16:57
skvidal 1. is the doesn't-update-display thing that wwoods mentioned 16:57
wwoods that's the UI-hang bug 16:57
jlaska wwoods: yeah, that's the one 16:57
skvidal 2. is the createrepo/yum bug if they are not using latest yum 16:57
skvidal wwoods: I find 1 odd - I thought it might be a urlgrabber thing but if you can make it happen on pure f11 then not so much 16:58
wwoods yeah, plain uptodate F11 16:58
jlaska adamw: should bug#526535 be moved to MODIFIED now? 16:59
buggbot Bug medium, low, ---, dcbw, NEW, [abrt] crash detected in NetworkManager-gnome-1:0.7.996-3.git20090928.fc12 16:59
adamw jlaska: we're working on the tagging status 16:59
jlaska for my own clarification ... it can't go into MODIFIED unless it's also tagged? 17:00
adamw jlaska: i'm not sure when we should use MODIFIED when we're in a freeze situation... 17:00
skvidal wwoods: I'll make the bizarro bug my main problem today 17:00
adamw jlaska: i'm not sure either :) 17:00
jlaska skvidal: wwoods: thanks gents 17:00
jlaska Oxf13: do you have any take on the tagging and MODIFIED bz state? 17:01
jlaska I would think we can mark it as MODIFIED if a package is built, but it can't be tested (and therefore CLOSED RAWHIDE) until it's tagged and readily available. Is that wrong? 17:02
Oxf13 my take is that MODIFIED means something changed, either upstream or locally, but it hasn't been confirmed or built/tagged for rawhide 17:02
Oxf13 just don't /close/ anything unless it gets tagged 17:02
jlaska agreed 17:02
jlaska adamw: any objections? 17:03
wwoods (insert caveats about preupgrade fixes not requiring f12 tags per se here) 17:03
jlaska wwoods: true, good point 17:03
adamw jlaska: um. that's probably okay. you can argue it either way, really. just pick an answer and write it down in the lifecycle page :) 17:04
jlaska adamw: cool, I think we have one then 17:05
jlaska there's a gap here that leaves ambiguity, but that's not something I'm interested in touching on at the moment 17:05
jlaska Alrighty ... let's move on to a quick recap of upcoming events 17:05
jlaska #topic Upcoming QA events 17:05
jlaska All of the discussion for the last 25 minutes has been around the beta go / no_go meeting coming up in 1 hour 17:06
jlaska Beta Blocker Bug (go/no go) - Mon 2009-10-05 17:06
jlaska based on the outcome of that meeting, we may or may not have a ... 17:06
jlaska * Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting - Wed 2009-10-07 17:06
jlaska however, either way ... we've got another test day queued up for this thursday 17:06
jlaska * RAID Test Day - Thu 2009-10-08 17:06
jlaska If anyone has dmraid hardware, we could use your feedback this thursday 17:07
jlaska (or any hardware RAID for that matter) 17:07
jlaska So that's all I have listed for upcoming events ... let's move on to 'open floor' 17:08
jlaska #topic Open floor - <insert your topic> 17:08
jlaska Any items folks would like to discuss during the meeting? 17:08
jlaska quiet ... I'm assuming folks went off for some lunch before the rel-eng meeting then 17:10
Oxf13 something like that 17:10
adamw i am just aiming not to prolong the meeting :) 17:11
jlaska alrighty ... let's close it out then 17:11
* kparal1 still here, but no issues 17:11
jlaska please follow-up to the list for any other concerns 17:11
jlaska thanks for baring with me through the slooooow bug review part of todays meeting :) 17:12
jlaska #endmeetings 17:12
jlaska #endmeeting 17:12

Generated by 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!