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People present (lines said)

  1. jlaska (97)
  2. wwoods (28)
  3. kparal (21)
  4. adamw (16)
  5. nirik (10)
  6. mkrizek (5)
  7. jskladan (4)
  8. fenris02 (3)
  9. jsmith (3)
  10. jskladan_lunch (2)
  11. maxamillion (1)

Unable to attend:

  1. Rhe (hopefully sleeping)
  2. Newgle1 (hopefully sleeping)


Previous meeting follow-up

  • None

Ticket cleanup

Cleaning up F14 tickets in fedora-qa TRAC instance
Next steps ...
File tickets for F15 QA ideas/topics
Jlaska planning to create tickets in response to the retrospective items

RFE - draft OpenLDAP test case

jvcelak documented basic test instructions for Package-x-generic-16.pngopenldap-servers (see
Next steps ...
Looking for volunteer to draft a test case using provided instructions

Call for Test Days

Call for ideas/owners for Fedora 15 QA/Test_Days
Monitor list of approved features for ideas
AdamW initiated GNOME3 discussion on desktop@ list
Next steps ...
Create fedora-qa ticket

AutoQA Update

Updated roadmap wiki at
autoqa ticket#244 (fas.conf) now in master -;a=commit;h=1b1d73030401a5859751b871043c15a2f8877064
mkrizek working on autoqa ticket#205 , see mkrizek branch (;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/mkrizek)
Wwoods working on autoqa ticket#248 -- bad things happen if -pending set changes while test is running
Next steps ...
Wwoods posting blog article explaining the need for autoqa ticket#248
Depcheck may need to be updated to provide bodhi feedback for each $basearch
Jskladan rewriting bodhi watcher to work with depcheck (encountering depcheck issues)

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Updates improvements/changes ideas

Nirik pointed out there was a long thread on the devel list recently about updates and updates process, etc.
Nirik gathered up all the suggestions (good or bad) in a list for FESCO to review
Nirik asked for Fedora QA feedback on the suggestions
Next steps ...
Nirik to start discussion on test list (see
All - provide feedback on ideas

Action items

  1. jlaska to prep F15 test day wiki and request ideas on test@

IRC Transcript

jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 16:00
zodbot Meeting started Mon Nov 29 16:00:15 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at 16:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00
jlaska #meetingname fedora-qa 16:00
zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 16:00
jlaska #topic Waiting for participants... 16:00
* jskladan_lunch lurks 16:00
adamw yo 16:00
* jskladan_lunch heh, seems like a long lunch :) 16:00
* mkrizek is here 16:01
jlaska jskladan: welcome you lurker :) 16:01
jlaska mkrizek: do you have lecture today? 16:01
mkrizek jlaska: yes, but I am not there:) 16:01
jlaska mkrizek: secret is safe with me :) 16:01
mkrizek jlaska: I gave up on math 16:01
jlaska sounds like a good t-shirt idea 16:01
jskladan hehe 16:02
mkrizek :) 16:02
* kparal here 16:02
jlaska kparal: adamw: hello 16:02
jlaska anyone else lurking? 16:02
jlaska wwoods around? 16:02
jlaska #info Proposed meeting agenda - 16:03
* wwoods here! 16:03
jlaska wwoods: yay, welcome back 16:03
jlaska Alright, let's get started ... will certainly welcome any late #joins 16:04
jlaska #topic Previous meeting follow-up 16:04
jlaska We had no meeting last week ... so I'm not aware of any follow-up items 16:04
jlaska I've been working the QA recommendations and prepping for creating new tickets 16:05
jlaska so that'll explain our first topic 16:05
jlaska anything else folks wanted to raise before we dive in? 16:05
jlaska alright 16:06
jlaska #topic Tickets please! 16:06
jlaska A bit late ... but just a heads up on the ticket traffic to the mailing list 16:06
jlaska I've been kicking some older F14 fedora-qa tickets ... and will start filing for F15 shortly 16:06
jlaska So apologies for the mail volume :) 16:07
jlaska As always ... if anyone wants to recommend something for F15, tickets welcome 16:07
jlaska #link 16:07
jlaska This concludes the public service announcement on tickets (sort of) 16:07
jlaska #topic Draft OpenLDAP test case 16:08
jlaska This topic came up on the list as a result of a recent openldap update 16:08
jlaska #link 16:08
jlaska Basically, nirik and jvcelak were discussing documenting the steps to test the openldap-servers package 16:08
wwoods hooray! I like it when maintainers / experts give test cases. 16:08
adamw yup 16:09
jlaska yeah definitely 16:09
jlaska I thought this might be a good opportunity to see if anyone wanted to volunteer to wiki-ize that test case 16:09
jlaska This couples with another topic for F15, in terms of providing a structure for organizing proventester tests on the wiki 16:10
jlaska but for now ... this seemed like a nice K.I.S.S. example to try 16:10
jlaska if no one is anxious to grab this ... I'll add a #help to the minutes 16:11
adamw if we get a test case i'll wikify it 16:11
adamw as you said we need to set up some kind of structure for this 16:11
adamw and ideally link it in to bodhi so when you see a testing update notification for a package with a test case there's a link to the test case... 16:11
jlaska adamw: yeah ... that's the direction I think we'd all like to see it move 16:12
jlaska linking this stuff together, providing quick+easy instructions for how to add content 16:12
jlaska These proventester requests from maintainers seem like really good opportunities to document some test instructions 16:13
jlaska I can definitely help on the wiki side ... but I think we need volunteers to talk through the basic instructions with the maintainer so we know what to document 16:13
jlaska this seems like a good challenge for proventesters, but writing wiki pages isn't the most exciting thing for some people 16:14
jlaska I don't mind wiki work myself ... but I'd need help from proventesters to ask questions from maintainers, get instructions, and maybe file fedora-qa TRAC tickets so we can integrate this stuff 16:14
adamw sure 16:15
jlaska So ... look for more discussion on this going forward. As always, we don't have all the answers, but are looking for someone interested in breaking new ground to figure out a good workflow here 16:15
adamw let's just do one first 16:15
jlaska exactly 16:15
jlaska so in the meantime ... let's figure out how to get some repeatable instructions out of the thread ( 16:16
fenris02 openldap test case ... run migratetools and then run queries that you can verify against the /etc files 16:16
fenris02 if either the migrate or the query fails, the test fails as a whole 16:16
jlaska fenris02: cool, that's the kind of stuff we'd be looking to start fleshing out on the list 16:16
jlaska Alright ... anything else on this topic? Otherwise, I'll move on ... 16:17
fenris02 migareteools is already in the repo, and already works - so it's really just to wrap a script around the process 16:17
jlaska fenris02: sounds like you might be on to something, let's bring that up in front of the maintainers for input/feedback 16:18
jlaska #topic Call for F15 Test Days 16:18
jlaska Another public service announcement requesting Test Day ideas and hosts 16:19
jlaska There are a few topics which will likely make for good events already ... 16:19
wwoods is there a mail thread for this, so I don't repeat already-suggested ideas? 16:19
wwoods or perhaps they're already on the wiki page? 16:19
jlaska wwoods: not yet, but I can kick one off 16:19
jlaska ... if that would help get ideas flowing 16:20
wwoods or use the Talk: section of the appropriate wiki page to collect ideas 16:20
jlaska #action jlaska to prep F15 test day wiki and request ideas on test@ 16:20
jlaska wwoods: good suggestion, thanks 16:20
wwoods might be a good idea - I'd like to get some suggestions from the desktop/gnome3 hackers 16:20
adamw already working on that 16:20
adamw see desktop list archives 16:20
jlaska yeah ... GNOME3 will have some representation I'm sure (adamw) 16:20
wwoods "GNOME3" itself is too broad but I'm sure there are some specific areas that would benefit from a test day 16:21
jlaska xorg-x11-drv again I bet? 16:21
adamw yes 16:21
jlaska systemd 16:21
adamw yes 16:21
jsmith Yeah... I've been doing some jhbuild tests -- and I'm sure some others would love to test as well 16:21
jlaska ABRT retraceserver 16:21
adamw jsmith: no rawhide? wimp 16:21
jlaska #link Good place to watch for ideas - 16:21
jlaska okay, so I'll take action to prep the wiki and follow-up on 16:22
jsmith adamw: That's on my to-do list this week :-p 16:22
wwoods i've been doing rawhide + jhbuild gnome-shell. actually RAWER than rawhide. woo, yeh, &c 16:22
adamw heh 16:22
jlaska linking to what adamw has already kicked off w/ GNOME3 at 16:22
jsmith adamw: (although the last time I ran rawhide, the Gnome Shell packages weren't the most up to date) 16:22
adamw they're pretty up to date now. 16:22
jlaska #link 16:22
jlaska #link 16:22
adamw they were kept intentionally old in F14 because we couldn't package the newest gnome shell and still keep f14 a gnome2 environment. 16:22
jlaska Alright ... any other thoughts around F15 Test Days before moving on? 16:23
* jlaska intends to follow the same wiki schedule + TRAC ticket approach we used for the last 2 releases 16:23
jlaska moving along ... next topic 16:24
jlaska #topic AutoQA Update 16:24
jlaska kparal: take it away 16:24
* kparal stops eating peanuts 16:25
kparal let's go :) 16:25
jlaska heh 16:25
kparal it was quite some time from last AutoQA update, so I don't precisely remember what was said, maybe I'll repeat something 16:25
kparal we created a nice roadmap, thanks jlaska for improving the layout: 16:26
jlaska #info Updated roadmap wiki at 16:26
kparal we're now busy working on 0.4.4 milestone: 16:26
kparal I'm glad we all are finally working on the same task, I feel it moves forward much faster now 16:27
wwoods hooray! 16:28
kparal today I have pushed support for fas.conf (ticket 244), and when mkrizek finished his patch (ticket 205), we will be able to send comments to Bodhi 16:28
kparal upgradepath is expected to be the first test bunny (what's the expression in english?:) ) 16:29
wwoods guinea pig! 16:29
kparal right! :) 16:29
wwoods (man, that's a weird expression now that I think of it) 16:29
wwoods space monkey. 16:29
kparal jskladan in the mean time works on rewriting our bodhi watcher so that it works great with depcheck once it's ready 16:29
* maxamillion is here .... wayyyyy late, but here 16:30
jskladan kparal: the bodhi watcher is done - I've been fighting with the depcheck lately 16:30
jskladan (at least the quick'n'dirty "run just one autoqa instance for the whole batch of new stuff") 16:30
kparal did I already mention we released 0.4.3 lately? well we did. and we updated documentation, too! :) 16:30
jlaska kparal: jskladan: I was confused last week by the bodhi watcher changes ... but I think I understand it a little better now 16:31
kparal mkrizek: jskladan: do you want to talk more in detail about your current tasks? 16:31
jlaska it's 2 part right? Part#1) change the watch so it includes all updates since last fire, instead of running for *each* update 16:31
jlaska part#2 - Change to monitor the koji -pending tag, instead of scrubbing bodhi? 16:32
wwoods jskladan: I saw your email about depcheck not working as expected and sent a reply on the list - happy to talk through the problem further on IRC if need be 16:32
dgilmore win 14 16:32
jlaska #info ticket#244 (fas.conf) now in master -;a=commit;h=1b1d73030401a5859751b871043c15a2f8877064 16:32
jlaska #info mkrizek working on ticket#205, see mkrizek branch (;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/mkrizek) 16:32
jskladan wwoods: sure, let's catch up on that after the meeting 16:32
mkrizek not at the moment, once the patch (#205) is done (which should be very soon since I only need to test it on server) I will post a description of the patch on the autoqa-devel 16:33
* kparal ran out of peanuts 16:33
* jlaska overnights more peanuts 16:33
kparal ok, so that was a short summary on AutoQA front 16:34
jlaska kparal: clumens is just about done with his anaconda_storage unittest integration. Can we get that on the roadmap for a future update? 16:35
kparal jlaska: I noticed he had mentioned that on his blog, but I basically don't know anything about that 16:35
kparal what does it do? 16:36
jlaska kparal: Clumens, or I, will kick off discussion on autoqa-devel@ soon ... just wanted to give you a heads up 16:36
kparal ok 16:36
kparal we can surely add it to the roadmap once we know something more about it :) 16:36
jlaska great, thanks! 16:36
jlaska alright ... anything else to add on autoqa? 16:37
jlaska wwoods: any additional depcheck work you're planning that isn't in the autoqa-0.4.4 milestone ( 16:37
kparal wwoods: I believe there are still a few pending questions about depcheck in autoqa-devel (but I haven't read through those last-hour emails yet) 16:38
wwoods let's see 16:39
wwoods represents what I hope is the last major problem 16:40
wwoods basically there's some complexities relating to when and how packages get tagged / accepted / karma'd 16:40
wwoods I'm writing up a blog post explaining the details, hopefully for release later this week 16:41
jlaska Nice ... those are always good posts 16:41
wwoods in short: bad things could happen if the -pending set changes while we're testing 16:41
wwoods there's two ways to prevent bad things from happening: either a) treat packages that pass an earlier test as "blessed" and pretend like they've already been pushed live 16:42
jlaska #info wwoods working on ticket#248 - bad things happen if -pending set changes while test is running 16:42
wwoods or b) retest all the pending packages and revoke the +1 karma / acceptance if the package fails due to an interaction with a newer package 16:43
wwoods b) is much trickier, so we're doing a) 16:43
kparal well, we don't plan to add karma for now. if the result changes, we post another comment with the new result 16:43
wwoods AFAICT they're equivalent otherwise 16:43
wwoods anyway this requires depcheck to be able to treat some of its inputs as if they were already live 16:44
wwoods so I added code to do that, the week before the break 16:44
wwoods we'll need to adapt the test wrapper accordingly (to use the --accepted flag) 16:44
wwoods also jskladan seems to have uncovered a confusing problem that we're working on fixing or giving better diagnostic info about 16:45
wwoods anyway, the blog post will explain more 16:45
jlaska thanks for the extra info ... looking forward to the post 16:46
jlaska I think we're ready for <open discussion> ... will change topic if no other autoqa discussion 16:47
wwoods open that discussion! 16:47
* nirik would like to mention something... 16:48
jlaska nirik: autoqa-related, or other? 16:48
nirik other 16:48
jlaska okay ... 16:48
jlaska #topic Open Discussion - <your topic here> 16:48
jlaska nirik: take it away 16:48
nirik ok, there was another long thread on the devel list recently about updates and updates process, etc. 16:49
nirik I gathered up all the suggestions (good or bad) in a list. 16:49
nirik for fesco to look at adjusting things. 16:49
nirik It would be cool if we could get QA thoughts/input on the ideas... what ones are best worth considering. 16:50
nirik should I just mail the list? do a ticket? or how best to gather that input? 16:50
adamw mailing the list is fine, i think. 16:50
jlaska howabout a link here ... and perhaps a follow-up on the list? 16:50
nirik well, here's a paste of the list I have: 16:51
nirik yeah, can mail the list... 16:51
jlaska great thanks ... I'll be happy to add some thoughts there, as I'm sure others will 16:52
nirik ok. Sounds great. 16:52
jlaska #info nirik to send updates process ideas to test@ for feedback (preview at 16:53
jlaska Any other discussion topics? 16:53
jlaska alright, closing out the meeting in 1 minute 16:54
jlaska alrighty ... 10 seconds ... 16:55
jlaska thanks gang ... I'll send minutes to the list 16:55
jlaska #endmeeting 16:55

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