SIGs/Education/Meetings/2008-05-09

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sdziallas hi everybody!
sdziallas so, who is here for the edu sig meeting?
rdieter here (mostly).
sdziallas okay :)
sdziallas well, i have updated the list of applications in the wiki a little bit
sdziallas and i was thinking about selecting a few apps or a focus for the spin
rdieter so what's on your mind?
sdziallas for example, if we focus on mathematics we might - at least - include drgeo and wxmaxima
sdziallas on the other hand i have created a very basic spin with just some normal apps and an desktop environment
sdziallas and we have about 150 mb of space for edu apps (less or more depending on kde, gnome or xfce)
rdieter well, how about start with a math-focussed spin then, since thats: 1. focussed and 2. we have a pretty good selection of math apps to choose from.
* nirik butts in and wonders if there has been thought of a 'sugar' spin... I guess thats something for an olpc interested group to work on tho
rdieter nirik: would be neat.
nirik and that could be a good thing for a younger age group education demographic.
sdziallas nirik: agreed. i know, that there is a olpc live cd, but i didn't knew, that you could easily install sugar on f9
nirik I'm not sure if it's easily installable yet, but I think it's being worked on.
sdziallas (some time ago, you still needed to compile it, right?)
rdieter there's a lot to do with 150mb: kdeedu (kig, we could split this out to make space), geomview, Macaulay2, octave (some good gui's are currently under review)
sdziallas rdierter: that's true
nirik well, you can 'yum install sugar' in f9 fine. I don't know if you need to do anything to get it to come up tho.
sdziallas rdieter: well, i really like kdeedu, since it contains a lot of intersting edu apps, but it includes apps for different topics (math & languages & and so on)
rdieter R, scipy...
sdziallas nirik:
rdieter sdziallas: right, wrt kdeedu, we already split -kstars for Astronomy SIG/spin. can do the same here as needed.
sdziallas sugar.i386 0.79.4-1.fc9 fedora
sdziallas nirik: but i have no idea, how it needs to be installed - might be worth a try, hu?
* nirik installs on the test box.
sdziallas rdieter: okay, so we would select a few kdeedu (and other related) apps and then start with a math-focussed spin?
sdziallas nirik: great
rdieter sdziallas: I think so (as well as continue on working to get more good edu apps in fedora).
sdziallas +1. we definitely need more edu apps - maybe, if we get good feedback to a first spin, there might be further people encouraged to help
rdieter right
sdziallas but i'm not quite sure, which apps to should include - kdeedu has kalgebra, kbruch, kig, kmplot and kpercentage - i think it's important not to include software for the same use 3 times
rdieter having a "produce" to point at, will get more attention, feedback, etc.
rdieter true, make the list of apps, wieghted priorities, and include stuff until you run out of space.
sdziallas okay :)... and some pr might not be bad, too
sdziallas nirik: if a sugar desktop environment is working, i think we should definitely consider it - for example as a spin for younger children (with fitting edu apps... gcompris, childsplay, and so on)
nirik it installs fine, but I am not getting it to come up in a vnc... looking.
sdziallas hmmmm.....
* sdziallas has look at a possible spin config
rdieter so app/pkg candidates to top the list of what to include?
rdieter shameless plug: maxima/wxmaxima (I'll try to let others suggest others, since I maintain a few others and am totally biased).
dgilmore gday all
sdziallas hi
sdziallas rdieter: +1
rdieter dgilmore: yo mr. olpc
dgilmore you can get sugar running with "yum install sugar suagr-journal telepathy-gabble telepathy-salut"
dgilmore then you can run sugar-emulator or log into suagr from gdm/kdm
dgilmore though it still needs some work
dgilmore sugar needs porting to the new NetworkManager
rdieter An olpc/sugar spin would be... sweet. *ba dum crash*
dgilmore and we need to get more activites packaged
sdziallas might sound somewhat euphoric, but +100
dgilmore but yes a sugar spin would be awesome
dgilmore right now im migrating OLPC to F-9
rdieter dgilmore: you think NM + activities would be do'able in F10 time-frame
rdieter  ?
dgilmore rdieter: yep defiently
rdieter alrighty
dgilmore we have journal done so far
dgilmore but thats it
sdziallas that's pretty cool
* sdziallas is going to try it on on his own machine
dgilmore please let me know if you have issues
dgilmore its worked fine in my testing
sdziallas okay! :) downloads right now...
nirik not working for me in vnc... will try a real login soon here. ;)
dgilmore ive had some issues with suagar-emulator
dgilmore the Xepher X server doesnt support th 129dpi that my laptop runs at
dgilmore anyway please ask me if you need any help
sdziallas rdieter: a calculator like qalculate or galculator and drgeo or kig might be interesting, too?!
dgilmore rdieter: im hoping that NM will be done ssoninsh since id like to use it for OLPC though. none of the mesh stuff is in NM-0.7
rdieter sdziallas: yep, surel
rdieter dgilmore: well olpc's will presumably run the real thing, not an f10-olpc spin. :)
rdieter or am I wrong?
dgilmore rdieter: who knows.
dgilmore rdieter: though the next release will be based on F-9
sdziallas rdieter: i'm moving some things around on the list in the wiki
dgilmore rdieter: it would be nice if a sugar spin runs on the XO
rdieter nod
sdziallas rdieter: the question is, how many kdeedu apps we want to include: for example, if we're going to include all of the kdeedu math apps (and splitting them from the rest of kdeedu), it does not really make sense, to have a gnome based spin, right? (it would pull in way too much deps)
rdieter sdziallas: we'd have to weight that, and see which would be more economical: kde-based vs gnome-based vs. what we choose to include (much of little of kdeedu) + everything else.
sdziallas +1. true!
rdieter again, I'm totally biased, so I'd say go with kde-based, but I'd be willing to accept gnome too, esp if it meant more space for more apps.
rdieter the apps are certainly the focus here.
rdieter could even consider a smaller/minimal DE, like xfce, but I have little/no experience with that, so don't know how usable it would be for our target audience (whatever that is... ).  :)
sdziallas well, I'd say go with kde, since kdeedu includes more and imo for our purpose the more fitting apps (unless we find a lot of gtk-based apps for students - i think there are more gtk-based apps for children...)
rdieter sounds good to me.
sdziallas okay :).
sdziallas hmm... how about including taskjuggler?
sdziallas or scribus? i know, these are all not math-focussed apps - but they might be used by students generally... or should we put those on another spin?
rdieter imo, let's keep this one focussed.
sdziallas okay
* sdziallas was just asking for opinions :)
nirik gnuplot? higher math stuff?
rdieter but I don't feel strongly. if others feel the need, and/or have a use-case for including other stuff, fine.
dgilmore there could be a case for a few education spins
nirik kpolynome ? orpie ?
dgilmore one aimed at under 5-6
dgilmore one 5-6 though 11-12
rdieter dgilmore: definitely, we talked about that @ last meeting, age-based spins.
dgilmore and one 11-12 through 17-18
dgilmore very different markets
dgilmore  :)
sdziallas yeah... but we must start somewhere, right?
rdieter sdziallas: right, full circle, brings us back to math-spin. :)
sdziallas so maybe i should focus some ideas (olpc-spin, age-based versions....) in the wiki
sdziallas nirik: i didn't have them on the list... didn't notice those... somehow
rdieter sdziallas: eventually yes, but I still think this group would be better served setting a smaller, more-easily attainable goal, and accomplishing that first, before branching out.
rdieter shrug, but documenting ideas, categorizing apps, is always needed.
rdieter so, ignore me.
sdziallas okay ;) so lets talk about math :) i'll post the log and put some things in the wiki, though
rdieter don't get me wrong, I love all that stuff, I just don't want to get bogged down discussing a ton of diferent things with the end result of nothing.
sdziallas +1... maybe we should try to get a first spin out asap.... i mean, f9 is not so far away :) and maybe, we should accomplish this *before* f10
rdieter I think it's doable within weeks or months.
sdziallas ...which would be quite nice. i think we need an idea concerning the included apps... than, I might work a possible config (which should not take too long) and than, it's just a question of getting it approved and hosted
wwoods F10Alpha freeze is 9 weeks away.
* spstarr_work looks at wwoods
wwoods Just a friendly reminder.
spstarr_work shouldn't that countdown only begin *after* F9 is GA?
wwoods why? people have been building new packages for f10 for a couple of weeks now
spstarr_work true
rdieter wow, 9 weeks isn't very long.
wwoods planning for new features for F10 starts as soon as we close F9 for features
rdieter time flies when you're having fun.
wwoods that was months ago
spstarr_work wwoods: but rawhide hasn't switched to f10-devel yet :/
wwoods we move pretty quick here, people
spstarr_work even if i could just switch myself to it
wwoods p.s. doooooom
wwoods heh
wwoods it'll be unlocked in a couple of days
wwoods anyway, wasn't trying to derail the conversations
rdieter wwoods: not at all, thx.
sdziallas yeah :)
spstarr_work rdieter: my packages are targeted for F10, since they aren't really useful for post-F9 unless your backporting KDE 4.1 to post-F9 later? ;-)
rdieter spstarr_work: we will, yeah, most likely.
spstarr_work ok
rdieter sdziallas: do you have a good enough list of math apps yet? or do we need some more suggestions and brainstorming?
sdziallas kdeedu, qalculate, wxmaxima, octave (?), gnuplot, kpolynome, orpie
sdziallas that's on my list... basically
nirik orpie is not very pretty, but It's small so I guess it could be handy.
sdziallas the package is 650 kb... should be fine, hu? :)
rdieter Macaulay2, R (warning: big)
sdziallas package is 6,3 mb... i have a look at the deps
sdziallas not much more.... should stay at about 6,5 mb
nirik scipy ?
rdieter nirik: I'd lean toward no, let's stick with apps with ui's.
rdieter gui preferable even.
nirik ok, fair enough
sdziallas would cost us again about 6.5 mb - i have never used this one before.... so?!
sdziallas leave it off the spin?
sdziallas maybe, i should just take those apps and work on a kickstart file...
rdieter cool, I gotta run in a few minutes, thx for the meeting (so far).
sdziallas okay :)
sdziallas anything else to discuss so far, or should we talk again in a week or so?
sdziallas well, I'm going to post some results on the list
sdziallas thank you everybody
sdziallas have a nice day
sdziallas meeting adjourned!

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