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markg85mchua, here and ready for the meeting
rickyI'm not sure either. I guess it'd depend on how many other dependencies could get pulled it
juank_pradaok got it
juank_pradaill check if i can help on that later :)
mchuahey markg85 - ready to go as well.
mchuathanks for your patience, it's been a really hectic day
mchua(anybody else here to take a look at the tasks lists? juank_prada, ricky?)
juank_pradaoh are we having a meeting today?
mchuajuank_prada: not a formal one
mchuajuank_prada: ricky started updating the status of the (long-ignored) <a href=""></a> stuff a few days back
mchuajuank_prada: and since markg85 and I were working on some stuff we thought today would be a good day to check in, and figured we'd invite anyone else who'd like to join us
juank_pradaok.. i've been somehow since last year so i would like to catch up with you guys
juank_pradalet me check the task list
* ricky is partially here
markg85one thing before we start... please don't ask to many or long questions.. my head hurts like hell and feels like it's about to explode
* giarc is lurking but at work
mchuamarkg85: np
mchuajuank_prada: yay! catching up is good, I'm new so I've got a lot of ramping up to do.
mchuamarkg85: ok.
juank_pradamchua, im not new... but i've been lost ^^
mchuaok, so the first thing was markg85 , "Braindump thoughts on what needs to be improved to the wiki, as specific as possible." Mark, I can't find that on your userpage anymore, where should we look?
markg85mchua, max cleand it up. look one revision back
mchua*browser loads...*
markg85the max version sums it all up fairly good
markg85<a href=""></a>
mchuamarkg85: how do you think it went this week? i know we had some getting-started bumps, which is normal when you're getting used to contributing to a project for the first time
mchuabut this is looking good to me
juank_pradai would like to know if there has been any ideas or discussion around main site..
mchuajuank_prada: we're kind of doing that right now, the discussions are scattered and just starting.
markg85mchua, besides talking there wasn't much we did ^_^ so i can't really say it went well or horrible
markg85mchua, in terms of "productivity" it went horrible.. in terms of getting to know how things work in fedora it went well
juank_pradai mean... the get-fedora site was updated with an easy way to download fedora but still think it on some other section an improvement is needed
mchuamarkg85: I miss seeing the images of your mockups, do you want to repost those somewhere?
juank_pradamchua, i mean the static website not the wiki ^^
mchuajuank_prada: that's actually what markg85 was working on - gathering and coming up with "here's how the website could look better" thoughts.
markg85mchua,  they are in the link i gave: <a href=""></a>
juank_pradaoh good my bad then ... hehe as i said... im catching up
mchuamarkg85: yeah, but they don't show up as images - would you like me to move them to a brainstorms section on the webpages wiki?
mchua(I can do that right now.)
markg85mchua, go ahead
markg85mchua, they do show up here btw..
mchuajuank_prada: there are a lot of people with ideas on how the site should be improved, but I don't think we've all realized who else is talking about it yet :) so you should write out your thoughts and share them! (Do you have notes on your ideas for fp.o on a wiki page somewhere?)
mchuamarkg85: I think it's mostly that my laptop's wifi is molasses today. :) Will move 'em over.
juank_pradamchua, some time ago i posted some ideas on my blog... i might bring them back to discussion if thats ok
mchuajuank_prada: totally, yes!
markg85juank_prada, with images?
* markg85 likes visual stuff ^_^
mchuajuank_prada: and I'm new here as well, so you definitely don't have to ask my permission for this stuff ;)
* mchua likes visual stuff too
mchua(but is less good at making it)
juank_prada<a href=""></a>
juank_pradasome of the things i present there were already discussed so it would be good to avoid that discussion again and start from where all that was left
juank_pradathis is another one -> <a href=""></a>
markg85juank_prada, i'm brand new here. i have no clue what's been discussed/implemented/rejected about those ideas (still reading)
juank_pradawhich uses mizmo_ templates
juank_pradathe thing is... we have to avoid lots and lots of links and provide as less server requests as possible (AJAX?)
mchuaricky, mizmo_, quaid, et al - we've got 3 people catching up on websites stuff here, so it's a bit of blind-leading-the-blind. ;) if we're getting really off-track, please holler!
* mchua can't believe how slow the wiki is loading right now... maybe my wifi is just angsty.
juank_pradait might be better to discuss such things with them on a official meeting imho
juank_pradaby now we can brainstorm some things to discuss with them... maybe taking into a count the current get-fedora section as an example of how they want things to be
juank_pradaof course there is always improvements to make on that section
markg85juank_prada, a few points. 1. all your links are 404 (page not found)
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mchuajuank_prada +1 - I consider this a brainstorm chat. (Sorry I'm so quiet right now, I'm trying to put Mark's stuff into the wiki, and page load times are killing me.)
markg85juank_prada, 2. i like your Get Fedora mackup a lot more then the current one online (as far as the mockup is readable)
juank_pradareally?... how is that i can actually check that :P
markg85juank_prada, <a href=""></a> the links there are all 404..
juank_pradaoh.. the links for the images are broken
markg85and the demo
juank_pradayeah i have a problem with my fedorapeople space..
juank_pradai forgot about that
markg85mchua, then just skip it for now ^_^ put it somewherein your agenda where you have the time for it
markg85mchua, i'm not in a rush
juank_pradawell... that design was reject in pro of the actual get-fedora design
mchuajuank_prada, markg85 - <a href="[[Websites/Brainstorms"></a>
mchuajuank_prada: if you could put whatever links/designs you have there, that would rock
juank_pradaill try to organize all my proposals somewhere to make comparisons, i'm sure i have some other mockups somewhere else
markg85juank_prada, your proposal would be my idea of an "advanced" selection. the default one would then be those in my mockups or something else we still have to think out
mchuamarkg85: yeah, sorry, I'll defer further wiki monkeying-around 'till after we're done talking. But hey, we have a page now. :)
markg85mchua, oke :)
juank_pradaone thing that was discussed back then was the idea of having a one click download method from the main site
juank_pradawhich imho is a must
markg85mchua, juank_prada: just a question in between.. do you 2 run Fedora 11?
juank_pradai do
mchuamarkg85: not yet, I'm still on f10. was planning to upgrade this weekend.
mchuaf11 looks totally sweet.
juank_pradayes it does... and runs even better :)
* mchua rejoices
mchuaI'm looking forward to it then!
mchuajuank_prada: see, this is why we need people like you here, because you know what's been discussed in the past :)
juank_pradaguys i have to go.. its time for my knee therapy :S
markg85mchua, juank_prada: i'm planning to install it soon then write down all my issues i find while installing it and first time using it since my opinion can now be relatively objective :P
mchuajuank_prada: if you could email or post to the wiki links to the old design discussions you think should be brought up again, that would be wonderful
mchuajuank_prada: see you later! thanks for the thoughts
mchuajuank_prada: and hope your knee gets better!
juank_pradamarkg85, perhaps you might want to talk about that with mizmo_ which actually has made some usabillity testing
mchuamarkg85: ooh, that's a good idea. I'll do the same.
markg85juank_prada, good luck :)
juank_pradathanks... see you later guys
* mchua digs around
mchuamarkg85: some stuff I just found, <a href=""></a> and <a href=""></a>
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mchuawhich may or may not be useful to you writing notes on f11, I should look through this stuff myself
* mchua reads
* markg85 reads, okay, that's a little more involved than what I was thinking, but maybe I'll record a screencast and then tape myself talking over it. Anyhow...
* mchua puts "mark and mel are taking notes on f11 first impressions" on task list so we'll remember
mchuahm, I wonder what else we can do to help this go forward
mchuaricky, mizmo_ : ping
markg85mchua, i wasn't exactly planning on following a usability test list.. just install and use fedora and see what issues i encounter in the first few runs. in detail testing like that stuff on the wiki can be done at any time
* mchua nods
mchuayeah, I'm definitely not going to do a formal test of any sort either
markg85mchua, one of the things i noticed while running it under KVM was that i couldn't install fedora.. it doesn't seem see the hdd
rickymchua: pong
markg85that was just a 10 minutes test run to see how it looked and i was impressed :)
mchuaricky: we're looking at <a href="[[Websites/Tasks"></a>
mchuaricky: I think we're out of things to do to help out other than cleaning up <a href="[[Websites/Brainstorms"></a>]] a little
mchuaricky: any thoughts on new tasks that should be made, or existing tasks that people might want to hand off or get help with?
rickyWhat I'd personally like to ese more of is discussion on improving join-fedora and the join process in general
rickyThis involves FAS, the wiki, the various teams, and the static page on the website.
rickyThat's the latest task we were concentrating on discussing before I started drowning in schoolwork :-/
mchuaricky: so the end goal of that is to improve our websites to increase the number of quality new contributors?
* markg85 wonders if that has anything to do with my CLA critic ;)
mchua(mnergh, schoolwork...)
rickyYes, and to make it a step by step process to get involved.
mchuaricky: I would *love* to work on that
mchuaricky: are there any old discussions/notes we should look at?
mchuaricky: (or people, or particular teams other than "each team should have a good join process"?)
markg85add it to the tasks list ^_^
* ricky searches for the meeting logs
* mchua follow's markg85's suggestion *wikiwiki*
* mchua dislikes mw table syntax
ricky<a href=""></a>
* markg85 misses WYS>IWYG in mw
* mchua reads
* markg85 is not gonna read it while my head nearly bursts...
markg85that's a lot to read lol
rickyA lot of good idea though
mchuaricky: any thoughts on good deliverables to aim at for this?
markg85add it to the brainstorms page plz.
rickyWell, a new join-fedora page :-)  But I'm not too clear on what intermediate steps there are.
rickyA start is to consolidate and document the various join processes we currently have.
rickyFigure out how those can be simplified and broken up to be presented on a web page.
mchuaricky: ok, so a report/tour of current paths to joining fedora (as far as the total new-contributor experience goes, or routes-through-webpages specifically?)
mchua(as in, are we looking for "a lot of people talk with ambassadors!" or more like "people that start on this page can go to this page and then this page.")
rickyPersonal experiences (particularly "what made me cross the line to become a contributor") are extremely useful as well.
rickyThose are both entry points that we'd have to consider
markg85the entire wiki is unlikely to be the "made me cross the line" part...
mchuaAh, cool. One thing I was talking with mizmo_ about was doing an interview series with contributors to ask them specifically about that.
markg85for me the blogpost of max did
mchuaWhich is a pretty large project, but a smaller, more boot-strappy version would work for the j.fp.o project.
rickyYup, that's definitely good.
rickyOne thing I'm still frustrated with is how unclear the function of FAS is vs. mailing lists, IRC channels, etc.
rickyI'm of the opinion that FAS is not the place you go to join/get involved with a group - the groups there usually exist for tracking and access reasons.
mchuaricky: okay, thanks - I think that's enough to go from. The metric I'm thinking of is "how many contributions (commits, mailing list posts, etc.) to f12 come from first-time contributors compared to f11"? (not that we'll be able to measure that well, but...)
rickyThe real teams are at the mailing lists, IRC channels, etc.  That may need to be emphasized.
mchuaricky: Yeah, that's the same impression I've gotten.
markg85ricky, want to know my reasoning NOT to join for a very long time?
mchuamarkg85: I'd like you to be one of the first interviewees, if you're willing.
markg85might be valuable
mchuamarkg85: (though I probably won't start doing that until at least next week)
markg85mchua, sure fine with me
markg85mchua, my agenda is filled up with school for the comming 2 weeks
mchuamarkg85: Oh - then maybe I should catch you at the start of July then.
mchuamarkg85: I think this will be something that goes on for a while.
mchuamarkg85: and not being hosed is good.
markg85assessments, exams, re-exams... learning till my head explodes
markg85and then still failing ;)
markg85mchua, just ping me when you see me online and when you have time. i probably say yes anyway :P
mchuaok, I think I've got enough to run with j.fp.o for a bit
mchuamarkg85, do you want to do j.fp.o too, or keep focusing on the download experience?
mchuaand ricky, it sounds like you usually call website meetings... did you want to call a (real) one next week?
markg85mchua, for the mockups: none in the comming 2 weeks and then only the main fedora page and download for now
markg85mchua, for the interview: ping me whenever you have time
mchuaricky: I'm going to start going through the task list and pinging people for updates, but a real meeting would be good, to catch folks up
mchuamarkg85: ok, I will
mchuamarkg85, ricky: I think I'm set for now, you guys need anything else from me?
markg85mchua, just take a nice long break now before you start working again ^_^
mchuaI'll do that, my computer is telling me to take an rsi break anyway
mchuathanks guys! I'll see you later
mchuaand ricky, if you could call a meeting, that would be great, I'll ping people on the task list when I get back
markg85mchua, meeting for: j.fp.o + main + get fedora?
mchuamarkg85: meeting for the whole websites crew
mchuaI think it'll be the most efficient way for everyone to figure out what everybody else is working on
mchua(and then have potential partnership goodness)
markg85mchua, guess that includes me now as well.
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markg85mchua, strange idea that i can finally make a change (or attempt to) in something of fedora
mchuaBug #52736: that should not be a strange idea. ;)
markg85mchua,  You are not authorized to access bug #52736.
* iGiarc ( has joined #fedora-websites
markg85i'm gone. Good luck mchua.
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