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(New page: = I18N Project Meeting 2009-01-20 Minutes = * [http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=01&day=20&year=2009&hour=5&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 2009-01-20 0500 UTC] on #fedora-meet...)
 
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== Log ==
== Log ==
<pre>
{|
15:00:01 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings
|- id="t15:00:01"
15:00:11 <juhp> okay I make time now
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:00:33 <juhp> so welcome to the first fedora-i18n meeting in a while
| style="color: #407a40" | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings
15:00:51 <pravins> hi all
|| [[#t15:00:01|15:00]]
15:00:52 <juhp> hopefully will be become more regular this year :)
|- id="t15:00:11"
15:01:08 <sflanigan> g'day
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:01:20 <phuang> hi
| style="color: #407a40" | okay I make time now
15:01:24 <juhp> hi guys
|| [[#t15:00:11|15:00]]
15:01:27 <paragn> hi
|- id="t15:00:33"
15:01:34 <juhp> who else is participating in the meeting?
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:01:40 <jamesni> hi
| style="color: #407a40" | so welcome to the first fedora-i18n meeting in a while
15:01:45 <tagoh3> hi
|| [[#t15:00:33|15:00]]
15:02:06 <Kaio> hi
|- id="t15:00:51"
15:02:10 <juhp> we have an agenda for the meeting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings#Agenda
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
15:02:24 <juhp> let's get started
| style="color: #42427e" | hi all
15:02:39 <juhp> * IBus feature
|| [[#t15:00:51|15:00]]
15:02:50 <dychen_> hi
|- id="t15:00:52"
15:02:58 <juhp> first topic is ibus feature for f11
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:03:19 <juhp> phuang is pushing ahead with ibus for f11
| style="color: #407a40" | hopefully will be become more regular this year :)
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|| [[#t15:00:52|15:00]]
15:03:59 <juhp> yesterday we switched comps to ibus so that tomorrow's rawhide should default now to ibus rather than scim
|- id="t15:01:08"
15:04:29 <phuang> juhp, thanks
! style="background-color: #818144" | sflanigan
15:04:52 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/IBus has been moved to ready for fesco - so will be good to get feedback from them on the plan
| style="color: #818144" | g'day
15:05:08 <juhp> :)
|| [[#t15:01:08|15:01]]
15:05:25 <-- bpepple has quit ("Ex-Chat")
|- id="t15:01:20"
15:06:17 <juhp> there is still quite a lot of work to do to complete the feature work in time for beta
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
15:06:40 * asgeirf attempts to sneak in a slightly delayed 'hi!'
| style="color: #854685" | hi
15:06:42 --> rahul_b (n=rbhalera@123.236.183.101) has joined #fedora-meeting
|| [[#t15:01:20|15:01]]
15:07:19 <juhp> phuang: it is very important that the feature is completed in good time for the beta if it is going to be in f11:)
|- id="t15:01:24"
15:08:00 <juhp> I think dychen_ and Kaio will be doing some work on the engines
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:08:20 <phuang> juhp, Yeah. I will do my best to achieve it
| style="color: #407a40" | hi guys
15:08:30 <juhp> phuang: btw I was curious how easy do you think it is to write an engine in a language other than C or python?
|| [[#t15:01:24|15:01]]
15:08:35 <juhp> phuang: thanks
|- id="t15:01:27"
15:08:37 <dychen_> Yes, current I am workin on the building problem between libChewing and ibus-python.
! style="background-color: #488888" | paragn
15:08:45 <Kaio> juhp☺ mainly ibus-table, and ibus-anthy
| style="color: #488888" | hi
15:08:45 <juhp> dychen_: great
|| [[#t15:01:27|15:01]]
15:08:57 <juhp> Kaio: sounds good
|- id="t15:01:34"
15:09:32 <juhp> if you have comments on the plan now or on the talk page would be a good time/place to do that too
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:09:53 <dychen_> juhp, as soon as my libUnihan-iBus interface ready, they can use SQL table as engine. :-)
| style="color: #407a40" | who else is participating in the meeting?
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|| [[#t15:01:34|15:01]]
15:09:57 <phuang> juhp, It is not very hard. I could provide some libraries for other languages to make it easy.
|- id="t15:01:40"
15:10:14 <juhp> phuang: ok - np was just thinking about that
! style="background-color: #8c4a4a" | jamesni
15:10:28 <juhp> in fact there are already a few comments there
| style="color: #8c4a4a" | hi
15:10:33 <juhp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/IBus
|| [[#t15:01:40|15:01]]
15:10:55 <phuang> juhp, Currently, developers can only use dbus wrappers directly in other languages.
|- id="t15:01:45"
15:11:04 <juhp> first one I was discussing with nim-nim and it is big and outside the scope of f11 so I moved it to another agenda item
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | tagoh3
15:11:44 <juhp> phuang: ok - so for c/python there is a nicer api, right?
| style="color: #4b904b" | hi
15:12:22 <juhp> second item I answered on fedora-devel-list earlier
|| [[#t15:01:45|15:01]]
15:12:47 <juhp> phuang: any comment on third question - about remote X support?
|- id="t15:02:06"
15:13:00 <juhp> I imagine it would be similar situation to scim
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | Kaio
15:13:03 <phuang> yeah. DBus is transparency in c & python
| style="color: #4d4d93" | hi
15:13:09 <juhp> ok
|| [[#t15:02:06|15:02]]
15:13:44 <juhp> any other discussion on this important topic before we move on?
|- id="t15:02:10"
15:14:25 <juhp> so aim is to have C implemention in rawhide before Beta so that it can be tested enough for final f11
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:14:30 <-- rahulb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
| style="color: #407a40" | we have an agenda for the meeting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings#Agenda
15:14:34 <phuang> Remote X session could have a remote ibus daemon, or use locale ibus via XIM
|| [[#t15:02:10|15:02]]
15:14:50 <juhp> okay
|- id="t15:02:24"
15:15:27 <juhp> phuang: can you follow? and I can take care of the other two
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:15:38 <pravins> juhp: when we suppose to develop scim-sinhala etc for ibus?
| style="color: #407a40" | let's get started
15:16:04 <juhp> pravins: good question - how important do you think it is?
|| [[#t15:02:24|15:02]]
15:16:28 <pravins> phuang: what you think?
|- id="t15:02:39"
15:16:32 <juhp> pravins: at least we have maps for Sinhala in m17n like Indic langs but of course in long term would like to see more IMEs
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:16:54 <juhp> currently it is not default for Sinhala and not installed by default in distro anyway fwiw
| style="color: #407a40" | * IBus feature
15:17:04 <juhp> the default, I mean
|| [[#t15:02:39|15:02]]
15:17:08 <pravins> aha
|- id="t15:02:50"
15:17:18 <phuang> juhp, yeah. We have the map in m17n.
! style="background-color: #97974f" | dychen_
15:17:19 <juhp> it was earlier I think
| style="color: #97974f" | hi
15:17:21 <tagoh3> juhp: is there any languages not supported by ibus right now?
|| [[#t15:02:50|15:02]]
15:17:37 <tagoh3> which was supported by scim
|- id="t15:02:58"
15:18:01 <juhp> tagoh3: I can think of any off hand particularly
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:18:29 <juhp> of course there are more IMEs available at this time still for scim
| style="color: #407a40" | first topic is ibus feature for f11
15:19:05 <juhp> then again m17n handles nearly all langs
|| [[#t15:02:58|15:02]]
15:19:23 <juhp> but I don't think we lose any default IMEs by moving to ibus
|- id="t15:03:19"
15:19:39 <juhp> for langs that use IM
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:20:02 <juhp> shall we move on?
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang is pushing ahead with ibus for f11
15:20:11 <phuang> ok
|| [[#t15:03:19|15:03]]
15:20:31 <juhp> # Yum langpacks extension
|- id="t15:03:58"
15:21:02 <juhp> okay asgeirf pointed out to me the recent discussion on fedora-devel-list about comps
| colspan="2" | --&gt;yshao (n=yshao@60.247.97.98) has joined #fedora-meeting
15:21:27 <juhp> and actually notting posted a prototype yum plugin that is close to this idea
|| [[#t15:03:58|15:03]]
15:22:16 <juhp> so probably I will see if that can be used to solve the long-standing issue with getting conditional packages like langpacks installed
|- id="t15:03:59"
15:22:18 --- knurd_afk is now known as knurd
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:23:41 <juhp> I was even pondering a feature for it, but glad to see that other people also see the importance of this and getting rid of the language support conditional nonsense eventually hopefully
| style="color: #407a40" | yesterday we switched comps to ibus so that tomorrow's rawhide should default now to ibus rather than scim
15:24:13 <juhp> hope this can be improved for f11 anyway
|| [[#t15:03:59|15:03]]
15:24:36 <juhp> # Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute
|- id="t15:04:29"
15:25:00 <juhp> I might call this submodes (or minor modes in the sense of emacs) for input methods
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
15:25:17 <pravins> :)  -> ☺ U+263A
| style="color: #854685" | juhp, thanks
15:25:22 <pravins> :( -> ☹   U+2639
|| [[#t15:04:29|15:04]]
15:25:27 <juhp> yeah
|- id="t15:04:52"
15:25:59 <juhp> I would like to have a nice unicode input method in m17n or ibus more probably
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:26:17 <juhp> but mixing of IMEs is very interesting
| style="color: #407a40" | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/IBus has been moved to ready for fesco - so will be good to get feedback from them on the plan
15:26:20 <-- sdziallas has quit ("Ex-Chat")
|| [[#t15:04:52|15:04]]
15:26:28 <juhp> a bit like combining xkb maps I guess
|- id="t15:05:08"
15:26:45 <juhp> phuang et al: any thoughts on that
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:27:25 <phuang> juhp, It is good
| style="color: #407a40" | :)
15:27:30 <juhp> we probably won't do it for f11 say unless it is easy but interesting idea for the future
|| [[#t15:05:08|15:05]]
15:27:49 <phuang> juhp, yeah.
|- id="t15:05:25"
15:28:05 <pravins> yeah
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15:28:07 <asgeirf> it would certainly get IMs more exposure :)
|| [[#t15:05:25|15:05]]
15:28:08 <juhp> it would certainly do something that other OSes can't
|- id="t15:06:17"
15:28:16 <juhp> asgeirf: right that too
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:28:20 <phuang> pravins, currently, ibus gtk im module, could do this. But qt im moudule & xim can not
| style="color: #407a40" | there is still quite a lot of work to do to complete the feature work in time for beta
15:28:37 <juhp> in fact I think we need to think about how to deal with xkb - a lot of people have talked about this
|| [[#t15:06:17|15:06]]
15:28:50 <juhp> the current dichotomy is quite ugly
|- id="t15:06:40"
15:29:25 <juhp> to us anyway - there should just be keyboard layouts and everything else should be an input method ;)
| colspan="2" | *asgeirf attempts to sneak in a slightly delayed 'hi!'
15:30:15 <phuang> juhp, I think we could let ibus to manage xkb. But I still need do more investigation on xkb.
|| [[#t15:06:40|15:06]]
15:30:20 <juhp> phuang: how does ibus-gtk deal with xkb issue again?
|- id="t15:06:42"
15:30:22 <juhp> okay
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15:30:26 <juhp> that would be good
|| [[#t15:06:42|15:06]]
15:31:21 <juhp> pravins: in the mean time you could write an input map for emoticons, etc
|- id="t15:07:19"
15:31:28 <juhp> might catch on in irc... :)
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:31:41 <pravins> juhp: surely  i will try for that
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang: it is very important that the feature is completed in good time for the beta if it is going to be in f11:)
15:31:45 <juhp> great
|| [[#t15:07:19|15:07]]
15:31:51 <pravins> but :) and :( these are very common
|- id="t15:08:00"
15:32:02 <juhp> yeah
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:32:03 <pravins> and we can add these in existing mim files
| style="color: #407a40" | I think dychen_ and Kaio will be doing some work on the engines
15:32:16 <juhp> and things like arrows, and what not
|| [[#t15:08:00|15:08]]
15:32:34 <juhp> pravins: yeah but not everyone may want them that i the problem
|- id="t15:08:20"
15:32:40 <juhp> is
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
15:32:43 <pravins> hmm
| style="color: #854685" | juhp, Yeah. I will do my best to achieve it
15:32:46 <phuang> pravins, yeah. maybe we could create a common mim file for it. And let others include it. Is it possible?
|| [[#t15:08:20|15:08]]
15:33:13 <juhp> or some conditional configure way of combining m17n maps
|- id="t15:08:30"
15:33:19 <pravins> phuang: yeah, that is also nice
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:33:20 <juhp> configuration
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang: btw I was curious how easy do you think it is to write an engine in a language other than C or python?
15:33:43 <pravins> yes we can start something like that
|| [[#t15:08:30|15:08]]
15:33:57 <juhp> pravins: thanks for bringing it up
|- id="t15:08:35"
15:34:12 <pravins> juhp: welcome :)
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:34:38 <juhp> # default vfat fs encoding in F11 -- User:Alsadi
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang: thanks
15:34:49 <juhp> default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592])
|| [[#t15:08:35|15:08]]
15:35:06 <juhp> is Alsadi here?
|- id="t15:08:37"
15:35:17 <juhp> I think he wanted to bring attention to this issue
! style="background-color: #97974f" | dychen_
15:35:58 <juhp> it is really something more for the desktop team I guess but we can help to try to get a satisfactory solution for international users
| style="color: #97974f" | Yes, current I am workin on the building problem between libChewing and ibus-python.
15:37:13 <juhp> just to summarise: I believe a fedora kernel patch to change the default encoding for vfat mount to utf-8 was reverted since it changed the behaviour for the fedora kernel compared to upstream and caused problems
|| [[#t15:08:37|15:08]]
15:38:25 <juhp> I Alsadi is suggesting that the hal should nevertheless be made to mount with utf8 by default so that filenames in utf8 appear correctly
|- id="t15:08:45"
15:38:34 <juhp> filename encoding are fun...
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | Kaio
15:38:53 <juhp> will try to keep an eye on it
| style="color: #4d4d93" | juhp☺ mainly ibus-table, and ibus-anthy
15:39:21 <juhp> # Fonts package renaming
|| [[#t15:08:45|15:08]]
15:39:31 <juhp> this is in progress
|- id="t15:08:45"
15:39:42 <juhp> how are people here doing with it
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:40:04 <juhp> the latest version changes the naming convention from *-fonts-* to *-*-fonts
| style="color: #407a40" | dychen_: great
15:40:44 <juhp> rahul_b, pravins, Kaio, tagoh3, juhp all have fonts
|| [[#t15:08:45|15:08]]
15:41:00 <Kaio> juhp☺ yes
|- id="t15:08:57"
15:41:13 <juhp> I confess to not having updated thaifonts-scalable will do that this week
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:41:28 <tagoh3> not yet finished for {sazanami,hanazono,vlgothic}-fonts.
| style="color: #407a40" | Kaio: sounds good
15:41:50 <juhp> tagoh3: so vlgothic is getting downcased too?
|| [[#t15:08:57|15:08]]
15:41:57 <Kaio> talk to nim-nim if need anyth
|- id="t15:09:32"
15:42:01 <rahul_b> I have lot to do with culmus and amy be even lohit fonts
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:42:03 <juhp> tagoh3: including the base package?
| style="color: #407a40" | if you have comments on the plan now or on the talk page would be a good time/place to do that too
15:42:11 <pravins> not finished yet for samyak-fonts and smc-fonts
|| [[#t15:09:32|15:09]]
15:42:27 <juhp> rahul_b: ok better do lohit first I guess
|- id="t15:09:53"
15:42:29 <rahul_b> have been waiting for final guidelines for that
! style="background-color: #97974f" | dychen_
15:42:39 <juhp> good thinking
| style="color: #97974f" | juhp, as soon as my libUnihan-iBus interface ready, they can use SQL table as engine. :-)
15:42:48 <juhp> they seem to be settling down now finally ;)
|| [[#t15:09:53|15:09]]
15:42:54 <tagoh3> juhp: no, not at all
|- id="t15:09:53"
15:43:12 <juhp> tagoh3: ah ok so still VLGothic-fonts?
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15:43:19 <tagoh3> right
|| [[#t15:09:53|15:09]]
15:43:21 <juhp> good
|- id="t15:09:57"
15:43:36 <juhp> nim-nim was keen earlier to downcase ;-)
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
15:43:51 <juhp> maybe another say ;-P
| style="color: #854685" | juhp, It is not very hard. I could provide some libraries for other languages to make it easy.
15:44:18 <juhp> I hope by next meeting we will have finished the fonts stuff anyway :)
|| [[#t15:09:57|15:09]]
15:44:40 <juhp> # Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim
|- id="t15:10:14"
15:45:08 <juhp> mailhot put forward an interesting proposal which behdad also seems to buy
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:45:25 <juhp> first described on the ibus feature talk page
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang: ok - np was just thinking about that
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|| [[#t15:10:14|15:10]]
15:45:59 <juhp> but after discussing it earlier on #fedora-devel I think I understand it now too and agree that it sounds attracture
|- id="t15:10:28"
15:46:08 <juhp> erm attractive
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:46:24 <rahul_b> how does it work?
| style="color: #407a40" | in fact there are already a few comments there
15:46:55 <rahul_b> from input method, or apps will handle on their own?
|| [[#t15:10:28|15:10]]
15:46:56 <juhp> basically the idea is that through the important method (probably) one specifies the language of input
|- id="t15:10:33"
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! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:47:21 <juhp> rahul_b: well the exact details are still open under discussion
| style="color: #407a40" | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/IBus
15:47:50 <pravins> rahul_b: might be adding language property field
|| [[#t15:10:33|15:10]]
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|- id="t15:10:55"
15:48:02 <juhp> im will then communicate this to the app as a language hint which it can use to set the rendering language and which dictionary to use to spellcheck the input
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
15:48:37 <asgeirf> so this will in other words be like e.g. OpenOffice does, but on a desktop-level?
| style="color: #854685" | juhp, Currently, developers can only use dbus wrappers directly in other languages.
15:48:48 <juhp> so even if one is not running English desktop say one could still have english spellchecking easily in apps when one wants
|| [[#t15:10:55|15:10]]
15:48:57 <juhp> asgeirf: right
|- id="t15:11:04"
15:49:17 <juhp> well openoffice allows setting fonts I guess?
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:49:44 <tagoh3> asgeirf: at least that sounds like not something can be fixed in one.
| style="color: #407a40" | first one I was discussing with nim-nim and it is big and outside the scope of f11 so I moved it to another agenda item
15:50:00 <juhp> or importantly for CJK users can specific which Han language (script) they are using
|| [[#t15:11:04|15:11]]
15:50:30 <juhp> well doing it for gtk/gnome might be possible but it sounds complicated
|- id="t15:11:44"
15:50:48 <juhp> it needs to be discussed upstream for anything to happen
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:50:56 <juhp> mclasen was also listening
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang: ok - so for c/python there is a nicer api, right?
15:51:28 <asgeirf> KDE4 had a feature called 'sonnet' which was supposed to do language detection and stuff... not sure if it was ever included though...
|| [[#t15:11:44|15:11]]
15:51:43 <juhp> aha interesting
|- id="t15:12:22"
15:52:35 <juhp> ok
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:52:52 <juhp> any other last topics before we draw to a close?
| style="color: #407a40" | second item I answered on fedora-devel-list earlier
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|| [[#t15:12:22|15:12]]  
15:53:37 <juhp> I propose to have another meeting here in two weeks time - should be a lot of fedora 11 topics by then I guess after testing alpha :)
|- id="t15:12:47"
15:54:55 <juhp> okay if there are no more comments or topics then let's close the meeting
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
15:55:06 --- mbonnet is now known as mbonnet__
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang: any comment on third question - about remote X support?
15:55:07 --> mether (n=sundaram@122.169.28.77) has joined #fedora-meeting
|| [[#t15:12:47|15:12]]
15:55:10 <juhp> thanks to everyone who joined in
|- id="t15:13:00"
15:55:28 <juhp> # (fedora-i18n meeting closed)
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
</pre>
| style="color: #407a40" | I imagine it would be similar situation to scim
|| [[#t15:13:00|15:13]]
|- id="t15:13:03"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | yeah. DBus is transparency in c &amp; python
|| [[#t15:13:03|15:13]]
|- id="t15:13:09"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | ok
|| [[#t15:13:09|15:13]]
|- id="t15:13:44"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | any other discussion on this important topic before we move on?
|| [[#t15:13:44|15:13]]
|- id="t15:14:25"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | so aim is to have C implemention in rawhide before Beta so that it can be tested enough for final f11
|| [[#t15:14:25|15:14]]
|- id="t15:14:30"
| colspan="2" | &lt;--rahulb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
|| [[#t15:14:30|15:14]]
|- id="t15:14:34"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | Remote X session could have a remote ibus daemon, or use locale ibus via XIM
|| [[#t15:14:34|15:14]]
|- id="t15:14:50"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | okay
|| [[#t15:14:50|15:14]]
|- id="t15:15:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang: can you follow? and I can take care of the other two
|| [[#t15:15:27|15:15]]
|- id="t15:15:38"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | juhp: when we suppose to develop scim-sinhala etc for ibus?
|| [[#t15:15:38|15:15]]
|- id="t15:16:04"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | pravins: good question - how important do you think it is?
|| [[#t15:16:04|15:16]]
|- id="t15:16:28"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | phuang: what you think?
|| [[#t15:16:28|15:16]]
|- id="t15:16:32"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | pravins: at least we have maps for Sinhala in m17n like Indic langs but of course in long term would like to see more IMEs
|| [[#t15:16:32|15:16]]
|- id="t15:16:54"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | currently it is not default for Sinhala and not installed by default in distro anyway fwiw
|| [[#t15:16:54|15:16]]
|- id="t15:17:04"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | the default, I mean
|| [[#t15:17:04|15:17]]
|- id="t15:17:08"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | aha
|| [[#t15:17:08|15:17]]
|- id="t15:17:18"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | juhp, yeah. We have the map in m17n.
|| [[#t15:17:18|15:17]]
|- id="t15:17:19"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | it was earlier I think
|| [[#t15:17:19|15:17]]
|- id="t15:17:21"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | tagoh3
| style="color: #4b904b" | juhp: is there any languages not supported by ibus right now?
|| [[#t15:17:21|15:17]]
|- id="t15:17:37"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | tagoh3
| style="color: #4b904b" | which was supported by scim
|| [[#t15:17:37|15:17]]
|- id="t15:18:01"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | tagoh3: I can think of any off hand particularly
|| [[#t15:18:01|15:18]]
|- id="t15:18:29"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | of course there are more IMEs available at this time still for scim
|| [[#t15:18:29|15:18]]
|- id="t15:19:05"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | then again m17n handles nearly all langs
|| [[#t15:19:05|15:19]]
|- id="t15:19:23"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | but I don't think we lose any default IMEs by moving to ibus
|| [[#t15:19:23|15:19]]
|- id="t15:19:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | for langs that use IM
|| [[#t15:19:39|15:19]]
|- id="t15:20:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | shall we move on?
|| [[#t15:20:02|15:20]]
|- id="t15:20:11"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | ok
|| [[#t15:20:11|15:20]]
|- id="t15:20:31"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | # Yum langpacks extension
|| [[#t15:20:31|15:20]]
|- id="t15:21:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | okay asgeirf pointed out to me the recent discussion on fedora-devel-list about comps
|| [[#t15:21:02|15:21]]
|- id="t15:21:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | and actually notting posted a prototype yum plugin that is close to this idea
|| [[#t15:21:27|15:21]]
|- id="t15:22:16"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | so probably I will see if that can be used to solve the long-standing issue with getting conditional packages like langpacks installed
|| [[#t15:22:16|15:22]]
|- id="t15:22:18"
| colspan="2" | ---knurd_afk is now known as knurd
|| [[#t15:22:18|15:22]]
|- id="t15:23:41"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | I was even pondering a feature for it, but glad to see that other people also see the importance of this and getting rid of the language support conditional nonsense eventually hopefully
|| [[#t15:23:41|15:23]]
|- id="t15:24:13"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | hope this can be improved for f11 anyway
|| [[#t15:24:13|15:24]]
|- id="t15:24:36"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | # Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute
|| [[#t15:24:36|15:24]]
|- id="t15:25:00"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | I might call this submodes (or minor modes in the sense of emacs) for input methods
|| [[#t15:25:00|15:25]]
|- id="t15:25:17"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | :)  -&gt;☺ U+263A
|| [[#t15:25:17|15:25]]
|- id="t15:25:22"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | :( -&gt; ☹  U+2639
|| [[#t15:25:22|15:25]]
|- id="t15:25:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | yeah
|| [[#t15:25:27|15:25]]
|- id="t15:25:59"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | I would like to have a nice unicode input method in m17n or ibus more probably
|| [[#t15:25:59|15:25]]
|- id="t15:26:17"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | but mixing of IMEs is very interesting
|| [[#t15:26:17|15:26]]
|- id="t15:26:20"
| colspan="2" | &lt;--sdziallas has quit ("Ex-Chat")
|| [[#t15:26:20|15:26]]
|- id="t15:26:28"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | a bit like combining xkb maps I guess
|| [[#t15:26:28|15:26]]
|- id="t15:26:45"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang et al: any thoughts on that
|| [[#t15:26:45|15:26]]
|- id="t15:27:25"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | juhp, It is good
|| [[#t15:27:25|15:27]]
|- id="t15:27:30"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | we probably won't do it for f11 say unless it is easy but interesting idea for the future
|| [[#t15:27:30|15:27]]
|- id="t15:27:49"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | juhp, yeah.
|| [[#t15:27:49|15:27]]
|- id="t15:28:05"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | yeah
|| [[#t15:28:05|15:28]]
|- id="t15:28:07"
! style="background-color: #9b519b" | asgeirf
| style="color: #9b519b" | it would certainly get IMs more exposure :)
|| [[#t15:28:07|15:28]]
|- id="t15:28:08"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | it would certainly do something that other OSes can't
|| [[#t15:28:08|15:28]]
|- id="t15:28:16"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | asgeirf: right that too
|| [[#t15:28:16|15:28]]
|- id="t15:28:20"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | pravins, currently, ibus gtk im module, could do this. But qt im moudule &amp; xim can not
|| [[#t15:28:20|15:28]]
|- id="t15:28:37"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | in fact I think we need to think about how to deal with xkb - a lot of people have talked about this
|| [[#t15:28:37|15:28]]
|- id="t15:28:50"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | the current dichotomy is quite ugly
|| [[#t15:28:50|15:28]]
|- id="t15:29:25"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | to us anyway - there should just be keyboard layouts and everything else should be an input method ;)
|| [[#t15:29:25|15:29]]
|- id="t15:30:15"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | juhp, I think we could let ibus to manage xkb. But I still need do more investigation on xkb.
|| [[#t15:30:15|15:30]]
|- id="t15:30:20"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | phuang: how does ibus-gtk deal with xkb issue again?
|| [[#t15:30:20|15:30]]
|- id="t15:30:22"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | okay
|| [[#t15:30:22|15:30]]
|- id="t15:30:26"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | that would be good
|| [[#t15:30:26|15:30]]
|- id="t15:31:21"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | pravins: in the mean time you could write an input map for emoticons, etc
|| [[#t15:31:21|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:28"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | might catch on in irc... :)
|| [[#t15:31:28|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:41"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | juhp: surely  i will try for that
|| [[#t15:31:41|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:45"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | great
|| [[#t15:31:45|15:31]]
|- id="t15:31:51"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | but :) and :( these are very common
|| [[#t15:31:51|15:31]]
|- id="t15:32:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | yeah
|| [[#t15:32:02|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:03"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | and we can add these in existing mim files
|| [[#t15:32:03|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:16"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | and things like arrows, and what not
|| [[#t15:32:16|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:34"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | pravins: yeah but not everyone may want them that i the problem
|| [[#t15:32:34|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:40"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | is
|| [[#t15:32:40|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:43"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | hmm
|| [[#t15:32:43|15:32]]
|- id="t15:32:46"
! style="background-color: #854685" | phuang
| style="color: #854685" | pravins, yeah. maybe we could create a common mim file for it. And let others include it. Is it possible?
|| [[#t15:32:46|15:32]]
|- id="t15:33:13"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | or some conditional configure way of combining m17n maps
|| [[#t15:33:13|15:33]]
|- id="t15:33:19"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | phuang: yeah, that is also nice
|| [[#t15:33:19|15:33]]
|- id="t15:33:20"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | configuration
|| [[#t15:33:20|15:33]]
|- id="t15:33:43"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | yes we can start something like that
|| [[#t15:33:43|15:33]]
|- id="t15:33:57"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | pravins: thanks for bringing it up
|| [[#t15:33:57|15:33]]
|- id="t15:34:12"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | juhp: welcome :)
|| [[#t15:34:12|15:34]]
|- id="t15:34:38"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | # default vfat fs encoding in F11 -- User:Alsadi
|| [[#t15:34:38|15:34]]
|- id="t15:34:49"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592])
|| [[#t15:34:49|15:34]]
|- id="t15:35:06"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | is Alsadi here?
|| [[#t15:35:06|15:35]]
|- id="t15:35:17"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | I think he wanted to bring attention to this issue
|| [[#t15:35:17|15:35]]
|- id="t15:35:58"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | it is really something more for the desktop team I guess but we can help to try to get a satisfactory solution for international users
|| [[#t15:35:58|15:35]]
|- id="t15:37:13"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | just to summarise: I believe a fedora kernel patch to change the default encoding for vfat mount to utf-8 was reverted since it changed the behaviour for the fedora kernel compared to upstream and caused problems
|| [[#t15:37:13|15:37]]
|- id="t15:38:25"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | I Alsadi is suggesting that the hal should nevertheless be made to mount with utf8 by default so that filenames in utf8 appear correctly
|| [[#t15:38:25|15:38]]
|- id="t15:38:34"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | filename encoding are fun...
|| [[#t15:38:34|15:38]]
|- id="t15:38:53"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | will try to keep an eye on it
|| [[#t15:38:53|15:38]]
|- id="t15:39:21"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | # Fonts package renaming
|| [[#t15:39:21|15:39]]
|- id="t15:39:31"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | this is in progress
|| [[#t15:39:31|15:39]]
|- id="t15:39:42"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | how are people here doing with it
|| [[#t15:39:42|15:39]]
|- id="t15:40:04"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | the latest version changes the naming convention from *-fonts-* to *-*-fonts
|| [[#t15:40:04|15:40]]
|- id="t15:40:44"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | rahul_b, pravins, Kaio, tagoh3, juhp all have fonts
|| [[#t15:40:44|15:40]]
|- id="t15:41:00"
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | Kaio
| style="color: #4d4d93" | juhp☺ yes
|| [[#t15:41:00|15:41]]
|- id="t15:41:13"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | I confess to not having updated thaifonts-scalable will do that this week
|| [[#t15:41:13|15:41]]
|- id="t15:41:28"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | tagoh3
| style="color: #4b904b" | not yet finished for {sazanami,hanazono,vlgothic}-fonts.
|| [[#t15:41:28|15:41]]
|- id="t15:41:50"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | tagoh3: so vlgothic is getting downcased too?
|| [[#t15:41:50|15:41]]
|- id="t15:41:57"
! style="background-color: #4d4d93" | Kaio
| style="color: #4d4d93" | talk to nim-nim if need anyth
|| [[#t15:41:57|15:41]]
|- id="t15:42:01"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | rahul_b
| style="color: #539e9e" | I have lot to do with culmus and amy be even lohit fonts
|| [[#t15:42:01|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:03"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | tagoh3: including the base package?
|| [[#t15:42:03|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:11"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | not finished yet for samyak-fonts and smc-fonts
|| [[#t15:42:11|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:27"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | rahul_b: ok better do lohit first I guess
|| [[#t15:42:27|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:29"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | rahul_b
| style="color: #539e9e" | have been waiting for final guidelines for that
|| [[#t15:42:29|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:39"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | good thinking
|| [[#t15:42:39|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:48"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | they seem to be settling down now finally ;)
|| [[#t15:42:48|15:42]]
|- id="t15:42:54"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | tagoh3
| style="color: #4b904b" | juhp: no, not at all
|| [[#t15:42:54|15:42]]
|- id="t15:43:12"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | tagoh3: ah ok so still VLGothic-fonts?
|| [[#t15:43:12|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:19"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | tagoh3
| style="color: #4b904b" | right
|| [[#t15:43:19|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:21"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | good
|| [[#t15:43:21|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:36"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | nim-nim was keen earlier to downcase ;-)
|| [[#t15:43:36|15:43]]
|- id="t15:43:51"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | maybe another say ;-P
|| [[#t15:43:51|15:43]]
|- id="t15:44:18"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | I hope by next meeting we will have finished the fonts stuff anyway :)
|| [[#t15:44:18|15:44]]
|- id="t15:44:40"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | # Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim
|| [[#t15:44:40|15:44]]
|- id="t15:45:08"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | mailhot put forward an interesting proposal which behdad also seems to buy
|| [[#t15:45:08|15:45]]
|- id="t15:45:25"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | first described on the ibus feature talk page
|| [[#t15:45:25|15:45]]
|- id="t15:45:28"
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|| [[#t15:45:28|15:45]]
|- id="t15:45:59"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | but after discussing it earlier on #fedora-devel I think I understand it now too and agree that it sounds attracture
|| [[#t15:45:59|15:45]]
|- id="t15:46:08"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | erm attractive
|| [[#t15:46:08|15:46]]
|- id="t15:46:24"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | rahul_b
| style="color: #539e9e" | how does it work?
|| [[#t15:46:24|15:46]]
|- id="t15:46:55"
! style="background-color: #539e9e" | rahul_b
| style="color: #539e9e" | from input method, or apps will handle on their own?
|| [[#t15:46:55|15:46]]
|- id="t15:46:56"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | basically the idea is that through the important method (probably) one specifies the language of input
|| [[#t15:46:56|15:46]]
|- id="t15:47:08"
| colspan="2" | &lt;--mether has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
|| [[#t15:47:08|15:47]]
|- id="t15:47:21"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | rahul_b: well the exact details are still open under discussion
|| [[#t15:47:21|15:47]]
|- id="t15:47:50"
! style="background-color: #42427e" | pravins
| style="color: #42427e" | rahul_b: might be adding language property field
|| [[#t15:47:50|15:47]]
|- id="t15:47:53"
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|| [[#t15:47:53|15:47]]
|- id="t15:48:02"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | im will then communicate this to the app as a language hint which it can use to set the rendering language and which dictionary to use to spellcheck the input
|| [[#t15:48:02|15:48]]
|- id="t15:48:37"
! style="background-color: #9b519b" | asgeirf
| style="color: #9b519b" | so this will in other words be like e.g. OpenOffice does, but on a desktop-level?
|| [[#t15:48:37|15:48]]
|- id="t15:48:48"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | so even if one is not running English desktop say one could still have english spellchecking easily in apps when one wants
|| [[#t15:48:48|15:48]]
|- id="t15:48:57"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | asgeirf: right
|| [[#t15:48:57|15:48]]
|- id="t15:49:17"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | well openoffice allows setting fonts I guess?
|| [[#t15:49:17|15:49]]
|- id="t15:49:44"
! style="background-color: #4b904b" | tagoh3
| style="color: #4b904b" | asgeirf: at least that sounds like not something can be fixed in one.
|| [[#t15:49:44|15:49]]
|- id="t15:50:00"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | or importantly for CJK users can specific which Han language (script) they are using
|| [[#t15:50:00|15:50]]
|- id="t15:50:30"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | well doing it for gtk/gnome might be possible but it sounds complicated
|| [[#t15:50:30|15:50]]
|- id="t15:50:48"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | it needs to be discussed upstream for anything to happen
|| [[#t15:50:48|15:50]]
|- id="t15:50:56"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | mclasen was also listening
|| [[#t15:50:56|15:50]]
|- id="t15:51:28"
! style="background-color: #9b519b" | asgeirf
| style="color: #9b519b" | KDE4 had a feature called 'sonnet' which was supposed to do language detection and stuff... not sure if it was ever included though...
|| [[#t15:51:28|15:51]]
|- id="t15:51:43"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | aha interesting
|| [[#t15:51:43|15:51]]
|- id="t15:52:35"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | ok
|| [[#t15:52:35|15:52]]
|- id="t15:52:52"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | any other last topics before we draw to a close?
|| [[#t15:52:52|15:52]]
|- id="t15:53:06"
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|| [[#t15:53:06|15:53]]
|- id="t15:53:37"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | I propose to have another meeting here in two weeks time - should be a lot of fedora 11 topics by then I guess after testing alpha :)
|| [[#t15:53:37|15:53]]
|- id="t15:54:55"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | okay if there are no more comments or topics then let's close the meeting
|| [[#t15:54:55|15:54]]
|- id="t15:55:06"
| colspan="2" | ---mbonnet is now known as mbonnet__
|| [[#t15:55:06|15:55]]
|- id="t15:55:07"
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|| [[#t15:55:07|15:55]]
|- id="t15:55:10"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | thanks to everyone who joined in
|| [[#t15:55:10|15:55]]
|- id="t15:55:28"
! style="background-color: #407a40" | juhp
| style="color: #407a40" | # (fedora-i18n meeting closed)
|| [[#t15:55:28|15:55]]
|}
 
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Revision as of 10:24, 20 January 2009

I18N Project Meeting 2009-01-20 Minutes

Agenda

Please add agenda items or propose to fedora-i18n-list ahead of the meeting.

  • Features/IBus -- JensPetersen
  • Yum langpacks extension -- JensPetersen
  • Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute
  • default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592]) -- User:Alsadi
  • Fonts package renaming
  • Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim
  • Next meeting

Log

juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings 15:00
juhp okay I make time now 15:00
juhp so welcome to the first fedora-i18n meeting in a while 15:00
pravins hi all 15:00
juhp hopefully will be become more regular this year :) 15:00
sflanigan g'day 15:01
phuang hi 15:01
juhp hi guys 15:01
paragn hi 15:01
juhp who else is participating in the meeting? 15:01
jamesni hi 15:01
tagoh3 hi 15:01
Kaio hi 15:02
juhp we have an agenda for the meeting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings#Agenda 15:02
juhp let's get started 15:02
juhp * IBus feature 15:02
dychen_ hi 15:02
juhp first topic is ibus feature for f11 15:02
juhp phuang is pushing ahead with ibus for f11 15:03
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juhp yesterday we switched comps to ibus so that tomorrow's rawhide should default now to ibus rather than scim 15:03
phuang juhp, thanks 15:04
juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/IBus has been moved to ready for fesco - so will be good to get feedback from them on the plan 15:04
juhp :) 15:05
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juhp there is still quite a lot of work to do to complete the feature work in time for beta 15:06
*asgeirf attempts to sneak in a slightly delayed 'hi!' 15:06
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juhp phuang: it is very important that the feature is completed in good time for the beta if it is going to be in f11:) 15:07
juhp I think dychen_ and Kaio will be doing some work on the engines 15:08
phuang juhp, Yeah. I will do my best to achieve it 15:08
juhp phuang: btw I was curious how easy do you think it is to write an engine in a language other than C or python? 15:08
juhp phuang: thanks 15:08
dychen_ Yes, current I am workin on the building problem between libChewing and ibus-python. 15:08
Kaio juhp☺ mainly ibus-table, and ibus-anthy 15:08
juhp dychen_: great 15:08
juhp Kaio: sounds good 15:08
juhp if you have comments on the plan now or on the talk page would be a good time/place to do that too 15:09
dychen_ juhp, as soon as my libUnihan-iBus interface ready, they can use SQL table as engine. :-) 15:09
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phuang juhp, It is not very hard. I could provide some libraries for other languages to make it easy. 15:09
juhp phuang: ok - np was just thinking about that 15:10
juhp in fact there are already a few comments there 15:10
juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Features/IBus 15:10
phuang juhp, Currently, developers can only use dbus wrappers directly in other languages. 15:10
juhp first one I was discussing with nim-nim and it is big and outside the scope of f11 so I moved it to another agenda item 15:11
juhp phuang: ok - so for c/python there is a nicer api, right? 15:11
juhp second item I answered on fedora-devel-list earlier 15:12
juhp phuang: any comment on third question - about remote X support? 15:12
juhp I imagine it would be similar situation to scim 15:13
phuang yeah. DBus is transparency in c & python 15:13
juhp ok 15:13
juhp any other discussion on this important topic before we move on? 15:13
juhp so aim is to have C implemention in rawhide before Beta so that it can be tested enough for final f11 15:14
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phuang Remote X session could have a remote ibus daemon, or use locale ibus via XIM 15:14
juhp okay 15:14
juhp phuang: can you follow? and I can take care of the other two 15:15
pravins juhp: when we suppose to develop scim-sinhala etc for ibus? 15:15
juhp pravins: good question - how important do you think it is? 15:16
pravins phuang: what you think? 15:16
juhp pravins: at least we have maps for Sinhala in m17n like Indic langs but of course in long term would like to see more IMEs 15:16
juhp currently it is not default for Sinhala and not installed by default in distro anyway fwiw 15:16
juhp the default, I mean 15:17
pravins aha 15:17
phuang juhp, yeah. We have the map in m17n. 15:17
juhp it was earlier I think 15:17
tagoh3 juhp: is there any languages not supported by ibus right now? 15:17
tagoh3 which was supported by scim 15:17
juhp tagoh3: I can think of any off hand particularly 15:18
juhp of course there are more IMEs available at this time still for scim 15:18
juhp then again m17n handles nearly all langs 15:19
juhp but I don't think we lose any default IMEs by moving to ibus 15:19
juhp for langs that use IM 15:19
juhp shall we move on? 15:20
phuang ok 15:20
juhp # Yum langpacks extension 15:20
juhp okay asgeirf pointed out to me the recent discussion on fedora-devel-list about comps 15:21
juhp and actually notting posted a prototype yum plugin that is close to this idea 15:21
juhp so probably I will see if that can be used to solve the long-standing issue with getting conditional packages like langpacks installed 15:22
---knurd_afk is now known as knurd 15:22
juhp I was even pondering a feature for it, but glad to see that other people also see the importance of this and getting rid of the language support conditional nonsense eventually hopefully 15:23
juhp hope this can be improved for f11 anyway 15:24
juhp # Extending input-methods with emoticons and other unicode chars -- PravinSatpute 15:24
juhp I might call this submodes (or minor modes in the sense of emacs) for input methods 15:25
pravins :) ->☺ U+263A 15:25
pravins :( -> ☹ U+2639 15:25
juhp yeah 15:25
juhp I would like to have a nice unicode input method in m17n or ibus more probably 15:25
juhp but mixing of IMEs is very interesting 15:26
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juhp a bit like combining xkb maps I guess 15:26
juhp phuang et al: any thoughts on that 15:26
phuang juhp, It is good 15:27
juhp we probably won't do it for f11 say unless it is easy but interesting idea for the future 15:27
phuang juhp, yeah. 15:27
pravins yeah 15:28
asgeirf it would certainly get IMs more exposure :) 15:28
juhp it would certainly do something that other OSes can't 15:28
juhp asgeirf: right that too 15:28
phuang pravins, currently, ibus gtk im module, could do this. But qt im moudule & xim can not 15:28
juhp in fact I think we need to think about how to deal with xkb - a lot of people have talked about this 15:28
juhp the current dichotomy is quite ugly 15:28
juhp to us anyway - there should just be keyboard layouts and everything else should be an input method ;) 15:29
phuang juhp, I think we could let ibus to manage xkb. But I still need do more investigation on xkb. 15:30
juhp phuang: how does ibus-gtk deal with xkb issue again? 15:30
juhp okay 15:30
juhp that would be good 15:30
juhp pravins: in the mean time you could write an input map for emoticons, etc 15:31
juhp might catch on in irc... :) 15:31
pravins juhp: surely i will try for that 15:31
juhp great 15:31
pravins but :) and :( these are very common 15:31
juhp yeah 15:32
pravins and we can add these in existing mim files 15:32
juhp and things like arrows, and what not 15:32
juhp pravins: yeah but not everyone may want them that i the problem 15:32
juhp is 15:32
pravins hmm 15:32
phuang pravins, yeah. maybe we could create a common mim file for it. And let others include it. Is it possible? 15:32
juhp or some conditional configure way of combining m17n maps 15:33
pravins phuang: yeah, that is also nice 15:33
juhp configuration 15:33
pravins yes we can start something like that 15:33
juhp pravins: thanks for bringing it up 15:33
pravins juhp: welcome :) 15:34
juhp # default vfat fs encoding in F11 -- User:Alsadi 15:34
juhp default vfat fs encoding in F11 kernel (should the utf8 patch be removed? and be sure it's fixed in [hal or devicekit rhbz #470592]) 15:34
juhp is Alsadi here? 15:35
juhp I think he wanted to bring attention to this issue 15:35
juhp it is really something more for the desktop team I guess but we can help to try to get a satisfactory solution for international users 15:35
juhp just to summarise: I believe a fedora kernel patch to change the default encoding for vfat mount to utf-8 was reverted since it changed the behaviour for the fedora kernel compared to upstream and caused problems 15:37
juhp I Alsadi is suggesting that the hal should nevertheless be made to mount with utf8 by default so that filenames in utf8 appear correctly 15:38
juhp filename encoding are fun... 15:38
juhp will try to keep an eye on it 15:38
juhp # Fonts package renaming 15:39
juhp this is in progress 15:39
juhp how are people here doing with it 15:39
juhp the latest version changes the naming convention from *-fonts-* to *-*-fonts 15:40
juhp rahul_b, pravins, Kaio, tagoh3, juhp all have fonts 15:40
Kaio juhp☺ yes 15:41
juhp I confess to not having updated thaifonts-scalable will do that this week 15:41
tagoh3 not yet finished for {sazanami,hanazono,vlgothic}-fonts. 15:41
juhp tagoh3: so vlgothic is getting downcased too? 15:41
Kaio talk to nim-nim if need anyth 15:41
rahul_b I have lot to do with culmus and amy be even lohit fonts 15:42
juhp tagoh3: including the base package? 15:42
pravins not finished yet for samyak-fonts and smc-fonts 15:42
juhp rahul_b: ok better do lohit first I guess 15:42
rahul_b have been waiting for final guidelines for that 15:42
juhp good thinking 15:42
juhp they seem to be settling down now finally ;) 15:42
tagoh3 juhp: no, not at all 15:42
juhp tagoh3: ah ok so still VLGothic-fonts? 15:43
tagoh3 right 15:43
juhp good 15:43
juhp nim-nim was keen earlier to downcase ;-) 15:43
juhp maybe another say ;-P 15:43
juhp I hope by next meeting we will have finished the fonts stuff anyway :) 15:44
juhp # Language tagging in toolkits of input text for correct rendering and spelling-checking -- nim-nim 15:44
juhp mailhot put forward an interesting proposal which behdad also seems to buy 15:45
juhp first described on the ibus feature talk page 15:45
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juhp but after discussing it earlier on #fedora-devel I think I understand it now too and agree that it sounds attracture 15:45
juhp erm attractive 15:46
rahul_b how does it work? 15:46
rahul_b from input method, or apps will handle on their own? 15:46
juhp basically the idea is that through the important method (probably) one specifies the language of input 15:46
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juhp rahul_b: well the exact details are still open under discussion 15:47
pravins rahul_b: might be adding language property field 15:47
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juhp im will then communicate this to the app as a language hint which it can use to set the rendering language and which dictionary to use to spellcheck the input 15:48
asgeirf so this will in other words be like e.g. OpenOffice does, but on a desktop-level? 15:48
juhp so even if one is not running English desktop say one could still have english spellchecking easily in apps when one wants 15:48
juhp asgeirf: right 15:48
juhp well openoffice allows setting fonts I guess? 15:49
tagoh3 asgeirf: at least that sounds like not something can be fixed in one. 15:49
juhp or importantly for CJK users can specific which Han language (script) they are using 15:50
juhp well doing it for gtk/gnome might be possible but it sounds complicated 15:50
juhp it needs to be discussed upstream for anything to happen 15:50
juhp mclasen was also listening 15:50
asgeirf KDE4 had a feature called 'sonnet' which was supposed to do language detection and stuff... not sure if it was ever included though... 15:51
juhp aha interesting 15:51
juhp ok 15:52
juhp any other last topics before we draw to a close? 15:52
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juhp I propose to have another meeting here in two weeks time - should be a lot of fedora 11 topics by then I guess after testing alpha :) 15:53
juhp okay if there are no more comments or topics then let's close the meeting 15:54
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juhp thanks to everyone who joined in 15:55
juhp # (fedora-i18n meeting closed) 15:55

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