From Fedora Project Wiki

Bug Triage Meeting :: 2008-12-02


  • tk009
  • jds2001
  • jlaska
  • poelcat
  • John5342
  • quantumburnz

Fedora 10 Maintenance

  • BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10
  • Overall went well--delayed by a day to fix email suppression problem
  • Next time do not rebase bugs which are on trackers for future releases
  • Remaining task is to auto-close all Fedora 8 bugs at end of life (EOL)
    1. Auto-close Fedora 8 bugs on January 8, 2009 (one day after EOL)
    2. Do not suppress regular email notifications--all people associated with a particular bug will receive email in accordance with their set bugzilla email preferences

Fedora 11 Tasks

Upcoming Events

  • Classroom
  • jds2001 leading a session on bug triage
    • Saturday, December 6, 2008
    • 13:30 UTC / 8:30AM EST

IRC Transcript

tk009 hello poelcat 07:01
* jds2001 here 07:01
poelcat ping jds2001 John5342 jlaska and anyone else I missed 07:01
poelcat hi tk009 07:01
quantumburnz good morning guys 07:01
* jlaska lurking 07:01
poelcat quantumburnz: hi 07:01
jlaska good morning 07:01
poelcat jlaska: morning 07:01
John5342 hi 07:01
poelcat first topic for today: BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10 07:02
poelcat overall seems to have run much smoother than last time 07:03
poelcat we were delayed by a day on the rawhide rebase because of the recent bugzilla upgrade 07:03
poelcat they were not going to be able suppress email notifications 07:03
poelcat so RHT eng-ops wrote a last minute hack to do that for us 07:04
poelcat any feedback or thoughts from others? 07:04
quantumburnz i'm glad the eng-ops were able to do that or it would have been nasty :D 07:04
jds2001 we forgot to ibclude things that block F11Target and F11Blocker in the query to exclude from the rebase 07:05
John5342 would have been funny in a twisted sadistic kind of way 07:05
jds2001 entirely my fault, and I foxed all of it manuallly (there weren't many) 07:05
jds2001 err fixed it :) 07:06
poelcat jds2001: could you post a second query to the the page above so we can use it next time? 07:06
jds2001 sure, it's gonna change every time though since the bug numbers will change 07:06
poelcat jds2001: iow leave there for the record, but add another one so we have it 07:06
jds2001 yeah 07:07
poelcat jds2001: true, but then we'll at least have an example 07:07
poelcat because i still can't bring myself to call the bz adv query page "intuitive" :) 07:07
jds2001 lol :) 07:08
jds2001 I'll also add a table of the bug numbers for F11 and F12 07:08
poelcat jds2001: thanks 07:09
jds2001 well F11 won't matter, but I'll add it anyways :) 07:09
quantumburnz jds2001 & poelcat: what you two are talking about was the issue brought up on the test mailing list, correct? 07:09
poelcat jds2001: this page is waiting for you: BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers 07:10
poelcat quantumburnz: which issue was that? 07:10
* poelcat is about 200 messages behind there :) 07:10
jds2001 yeah, where nim-nim complained about moving stuff that blocks future releases? 07:10
jds2001 nim-nim == Nicolas Mailhot 07:11
* jds2001 is behind there too. 07:11
quantumburnz haha, i'm really bad about keeping up with all the messages on there, but I believe it's the one from nim-nim ;) I do remember you replied to it 07:11
-!- poelcat changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: BugZappers/HouseKeeping/FirstDayDevel 07:14
poelcat this is our next applicable SOP 07:14
poelcat on this page: BugZappers/HouseKeeping under task breakdown 07:14
poelcat we've tried to lay out the different tasks that need to happen at different points in the release cycle 07:15
poelcat that help to keep bugzilla and bug tracking running smoothly 07:15
poelcat so on BugZappers/HouseKeeping/FirstDayDevel 07:15
poelcat jds2001 volunteered to take #1 07:15
jds2001 i was going to create milestone trackers today 07:16
poelcat jds2001: thanks! 07:16
jds2001 I've already created GA trackers for F12 07:16
poelcat he also already did #2 ! 07:16
jds2001 Oh, I didn't follow any template :) 07:16
poelcat #3 is the last section on: BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10 07:16
poelcat let's cover that real quick while we're here 07:17
poelcat BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10#Added_Comment_3 07:17
poelcat we need to make a few tweaks on the dates 07:17
poelcat does soemone want to take care of taht? 07:17
poelcat also are we happy with the text ? 07:17
poelcat i'd propose that we change the date to run it to Jan 8, 2009 07:18
poelcat because EOL is officially now Jan 7, 2009 07:18
jds2001 Yep, and we have agreement for rel-eng that it will be 1/7/2009 07:18
quantumburnz sounds good to me. 07:19
poelcat okay so 2009-01-09 is the date to autoclose... any objections? 07:19
jds2001 and need to change the text accordingly, obviously :) 07:19
poelcat next was: should we suppress email notifications? 07:20
poelcat what will help make people angrier ? 07:20
poelcat quantumburnz John5342 tk009 any thoughts? 07:21
quantumburnz suppress them. i think if people still think the bug is relevant, they should have changed the version #. no need to punish everyone else. 07:21
John5342 cant really suppress emails because thats like a last reminder for the end user to test in a later version 07:21
quantumburnz and if the bug is still relevant, it's not too late to reopen it and change the version #. 07:21
poelcat John5342: hmm 07:22
jds2001 we've already give a reminder though..... 07:22
poelcat John5342: even though we already warned them in BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10#Added_Comment_2 07:22
John5342 thats true but this last message is a clear note that this IS the end of the line and there will be nothing done about this ever unless it is changed. i am fine either way though. thats just my thoughts 07:23
poelcat John5342: we value your thoughts :) 07:23
jds2001 I'm on the fence here....but I think email may be valuable here. 07:24
poelcat tk009: do you have an opinion? 07:24
poelcat jlaska: thoughts? 07:24
tk009 I say send the eails 07:24
John5342 poelcat: i know you all do but it is only an opinion and not a fact. have to go with what we think as a whole and not specifically on what one person thinks. 07:25
poelcat John5342: yep, that's what we're discussing :) 07:25
poelcat okay so let's see where we are at everyone... +1 == send mail ; -1 == no email notification 07:27
tk009 hehe 07:27
* poelcat -1 07:27
* jds2001 0.5 :) 07:28
tk009 way to help out =P 07:28
quantumburnz -1 07:28
John5342 +0.8 07:28
* poelcat will have to be clearer next time on the voting rules ;-) 07:29
quantumburnz Under 'Fedora 8 EOL Closure' on BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora10#Added_Comment, what's that paragraph supposed to be describing? 07:29
quantumburnz hehe, seriously, who uses decimals? ;) 07:29
poelcat quantumburnz: that was the comment added to every open F8 bug 07:29
poelcat and email notification to all people associated w/ the bug 07:30
jds2001 we got complaints last time about "too much spam" 07:30
quantumburnz Are we talking about the same paragraph? "Bugs related to the components of the Fedora..." 07:30
jlaska poelcat: reading back ... 07:31
poelcat quantumburnz: "This message is a reminder that Fedora 8 is near its end of life..." 07:31
jlaska yeah I'm not a fan of supressing hte emails 07:32
jlaska that said, I'm happy with my bugzilla mail filtering scheme 07:32
jlaska the mail notification at least brings the issue back up ... and often someone else on the cc list comments 07:32
jds2001 i was gonna say, that's probably mean a metric ton of mail for you :) 07:32
quantumburnz poelcat: right, that was the comment added to bugs in bz. what's the paragraph after that under "Bugzilla Product Descriptions"? 07:32
John5342 i assume its not possible to supress all emails except to the reporter? 07:33
poelcat quantumburnz: oh, sorry, that is the text here: 07:33
quantumburnz that would be really nice -- if we could just send an email to people who have open tickets, the people who it's relevant to. 07:33
jds2001 It's an all-or-nothing deal :P 07:33
John5342 jds2001: thought as much. 07:34
poelcat okay so i think we've reached a decision... most people favor sending email notification; is there anyone that thinks it is a horrible idea and we should reconsider? :) 07:34
quantumburnz poelcat: thanks, much clearer. 07:34
quantumburnz i still think it's a terrible idea to make everyone else suffer for those who didn't take the time to go and change their bug reports, but i've already made my case. 07:35
tk009 but is not informing worse? 07:36
John5342 poelcat: added up the votes and they come to -0.7 that would surely mean no emails according to your initial question 07:36
quantumburnz lol 07:37
John5342 ofcourse tk009 didnt use numbers 07:37
tk009 I'm a rebel I guess =P 07:37
poelcat John5342: true.. we're trying to reach consensus.. majority vote != consensus :) 07:38
jds2001 so then it winds up at 0.3, which means do it :) 07:38
John5342 tk009: that means i didnt count your vote. lol 07:38
quantumburnz on the whole, it sounds to me like more are in support of sending emails than not so i say we do it and move on. 07:39
John5342 so the consensus must be to send out just over half of the emails. 07:39
* jds2001 has no horrible objections to sending mail. 07:39
jds2001 lol 07:39
poelcat lol 07:39
* John5342 will shut up for now and stop interrupting so people can actually make a final decision 07:40
quantumburnz poelcat: I wanted to edit the "Bugzilla Product Descriptions" section to make it more clear where it would be going, give the link you pasted as an example, but it requires admin privs to change. :( 07:40
jds2001 quantumburnz: you logged in? 07:40
quantumburnz yes 07:40
jds2001 anyone can change it, it's a wiki :) 07:40
poelcat quantumburnz: edit the wiki page and I'll add it for you 07:40
poelcat jds2001: no bz, won't let anyone w/o admin privs change the product description 07:41
jds2001 oh, you mean in bugzilla, yeah that requires admin privs 07:41
quantumburnz no, i'm just trying to edit the wiki. i don't know why it won't let me. it brought me to a differences page. 07:41
poelcat quantumburnz: probably because i was editing at the same time 07:42
quantumburnz ooooh, jeez. i'm a dork, i see what happened. never mind. 07:42
quantumburnz haha, ya, you beat me to what i wanted to do ;) 07:42
quantumburnz thanks though. that section makes much more sense on the wiki now. 07:42
poelcat okay so let's move forward w/ email notifications for F8 EOL and if people complain we'll revisit for F9 EOL ? 07:43
quantumburnz agreed 07:43
jds2001 +1 07:44
John5342 +1 07:44
tk009 +1 07:44
poelcat +1 07:44
poelcat yay! 07:44
poelcat back to BugZappers/HouseKeeping/FirstDayDevel 07:44
poelcat we're now at #4 07:44
poelcat we've never been real diligent about this step 07:45
poelcat one of the original ideas was to use the ActiveTriager's page to collect people to include in metrics reports 07:45
poelcat to give positive feedback on who was doing lots of work 07:45
* poelcat probably didn't say that as well as I could have 07:46
quantumburnz oooh, that'd be cool. also sounds like more work = taking work away from triaging. 07:46
tk009 that didnt work out? 07:46
poelcat it took a while to figure out how to collect the data 07:46
poelcat jlaska wrote a python script for me 07:46
John5342 might be good for competition. motivate triagers to do more to get the numbers up and brag 07:46
poelcat but you have to be inside RHT to run it 07:46
quantumburnz RHT? 07:47
jds2001 oh, doesnt use xmlrpc? 07:47
quantumburnz what's the T for? 07:47
poelcat and it is very manual... it just spits out a table of data and then i have to post it somehow 07:47
poelcat NYSE ticker for Red Hat :) 07:47
jds2001 RHT is red hat's ticker symbol :) 07:47
poelcat there were others that wanted to know who was triaging their bugs 07:47
poelcat so they didn't have to worry that a random stranger was changing their bugs 07:48
tk009 I think that is cool, need a way to automate it and let us see it though 07:48
poelcat so we wanted a way to recognize people that were "actively" doing stuff for each release 07:48
poelcat understanding that people's time commitments vary 07:49
John5342 poelcat: the other option with the bz upgrade is we can have preset queries and can also share them. might be able to make use of that as a sort of bugzilla based stats for us all rather than wiki 07:49
poelcat and that the page might get stale 07:49
jds2001 poelcat: sned me the output of jlaska's python script and I can see if I can massage it if you want. 07:50
poelcat John5342: i'm not sure how to do that for individ stats... do you? 07:50
poelcat so people think the ActiveTriager's page is a good idea and should continue? 07:50
tk009 I think so yes 07:50
poelcat we need someone to move the current names to an archive page and send out a call for people 07:51
John5342 poelcat: not specifically but if your able to create tables of rawhide, f9, f10 bugs etc based on queries then something might be possible. will look into it 07:51
poelcat to add/re-add their names 07:51
jds2001 yeah 07:51
poelcat John5342: hmm.. that table is one of bz pre-canned reports 07:51
poelcat 07:51
poelcat Who would like to handle #4 -- updating active triager's page and sending out announcement? 07:52
John5342 poelcat: oh right. didnt realise that. will have a look anyway but i wont get my hopes up 07:52
tk009 I will 07:52
poelcat tk009: awesome! thanks 07:52
tk009 you say that now, but later after I send ???? emails maybe not so much =P 07:53
poelcat and it looks like #5 on BugZappers/HouseKeeping/FirstDayDevel 07:53
poelcat should be part of #4 07:53
poelcat if someone could smooth out the wording there that would be helpful 07:54
jds2001 another quick announcement - I'm holding a triage classroom session on IRC on Saturday 07:55
jds2001 Classroom 07:56
poelcat jds2001: fantastic... what time? 07:56
tk009 that was going to be my question 07:56
jds2001 13:30UTC, 8:30AM EST 07:56
quantumburnz early birds... sheesh. ;) 07:57
jds2001 that's a tad early for me :P 07:57
jds2001 but that's when the organizers are holding it. 07:57
John5342 but over here thats afternoon 07:57
jds2001 John5342: and that's the intent 07:57
jds2001 the last one was in the afternoon US time 07:58
jds2001 and the next one I might do is scheduled at 04:00UTC to start :) 07:58
John5342 ah right. makes sense now. seem to remember mising something similar before 07:58
jds2001 11PM my time :) 07:58
poelcat we need to wrap up before the next meeting starts 08:00
jds2001 i suppose it could do it again 12:30AM on 2/7 (though I may be depressed, that's the day after I turn 30 :) ) 08:00
poelcat anything we need to cover next week that we didn't get to today? 08:00
tk009 lool 08:00
John5342 lol 08:00
tk009 I'm sure there is but nothing I can think of atm 08:01
poelcat thanks everyone! 08:01
John5342 thanks 08:01
* John5342 waves bye 08:01
quantumburnz np, have a great day everyone 08:01
poelcat i'll send a meeting summary to fedora-test-list 08:01
tk009 =) 08:01

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