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Bug Triage Meeting :: 2009-04-14


  • adamw
  • arxs
  • iarlyy
  • jlaska
  • poelcat
  • tk009

Topics of Discussion

  • Blocker Bugs - Discussed need to increase the quality of the existing documentation on the wiki (QA/ReleaseCriteria) to assist triagers/QA in identifying and adding blockers to the Blocker List.

This will be a collaborative effort with QA.

  • SOP's - Discussed the creation of a BugZappers SOP page and the status of the Introduction Email SOP.

poelcat will create the main page and Adam will fishing the Introduction Email SOP for inclusion.

  • Continued the discussion on the time allowance for NEEDINFO response.

The current guideline's of 30+30 days for closing a non-responsive NEEDINFO will remain. A minimum of no less than 30 days will be all that is "required" before closing a non-responsive NEEDINFO. This will be at the discretion of the triager.

Still waiting for the information from adamw's -devel email and beland was unable to attend the meeting.

IRC Transcript

tk009 BugZappers meeting starting, who is here? Apr 14 11:01
---poelcat_ has changed the topic to: Bug Triage Meeting Apr 14 11:01
arxs hello Apr 14 11:01
tk009 =) Apr 14 11:01
iarlyy I'm here Apr 14 11:01
adamw to Apr 14 11:01
adamw yo, even Apr 14 11:01
*poelcat_ here Apr 14 11:01
---poelcat_ is now known as poelcat Apr 14 11:01
poelcat tk009: you want to run the agenda? Apr 14 11:02
tk009 I can Apr 14 11:02
poelcat go for it :) Apr 14 11:02
tk009 First we have - Blocker Bugs Apr 14 11:02
tk009 I am not sure what should be said here. I know I have not added to that list Apr 14 11:03
tk009 I am not confident in knowing what should be on there Apr 14 11:03
poelcat be on the lookout for bugs that should block the release Apr 14 11:04
poelcat QA/ReleaseCriteria Apr 14 11:04
adamw does everyone know how to set a bug as a blocker or target for f11, and the difference? Apr 14 11:04
tk009 well that i knew I am just not sure I know who to spot those bugs Apr 14 11:04
poelcat handy blocker bug cheat-sheet BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers Apr 14 11:04
tk009 I need a refresher adam Apr 14 11:04
adamw I like to work on the basis of "if we ship the release with this bug, will there be pitchfork-carrying mobs, or a story on slashdot?" Apr 14 11:05
adamw tk009: there's a "Blocks:" field Apr 14 11:05
adamw tk009: for a blocker bug, enter "F11Blocker" in that field Apr 14 11:05
adamw for a target bug (we'd like to have this fixed but we won't delay the release), enter "F11Target" Apr 14 11:05
poelcat adamw: historically QA/ReleaseCriteria has been the guide Apr 14 11:06
adamw poelcat: but it doesn't mention pitchforks anywhere! Apr 14 11:06
tk009 that is what I mean, I am not confident in making that call in the past Apr 14 11:06
adamw fine, use poelcat's boring, po-faced wiki page then =) Apr 14 11:06
tk009 I read releasecriteria Apr 14 11:06
iarlyy this question about f11blocker isn't for bug triage after meeting? Apr 14 11:07
poelcat adamw: that would be QA's wiki page, not mine Apr 14 11:07
adamw iarlyy: we can work on it after the meeting, but it's also topical here, since if we want to work on the blocker list we need to know what we're doing... Apr 14 11:07
jlaska that wiki page is something I think we (QA) can improve to provide guidance for folks outside the day-to-day operations when it comes to assessing severity (or blocker status) Apr 14 11:08
poelcat adamw: i've been criticized in the past for criticizing it, but never got around to proposing a better one :) Apr 14 11:08
adamw maybe we should stick it onto the QA agenda for tomorrow jlaska? Apr 14 11:09
tk009 what I think I want to know is this: who is in the best position to see these blocker bugs for what they are? Apr 14 11:09
adamw but anyway, if you find what you think is a really serious bug but you're not confident about adding to the list, don't suffer in silence - mail the mailing list or bring it up at a meeting Apr 14 11:10
tk009 if that made sense Apr 14 11:10
adamw jlaska: traditionally it's been releng's job mostly to manage the blocker list, right? Apr 14 11:10
jlaska adamw: for the most part ... but I feel we need to open this up and make it easier for others to contribute Apr 14 11:10
tk009 only speaking for myself, I jsut am not skilled enough to spot them as blockers Apr 14 11:11
tk009 I want to be but am not there yet Apr 14 11:11
jlaska tk009: me neither, I think we can at least outline some basic criteria Apr 14 11:11
poelcat tk009: i think you are, we just need better guidelines :) Apr 14 11:11
jlaska that too! ^^^ Apr 14 11:11
tk009 s owe need to work with QA on guidelines? Or let them fix that up and we will follow? Apr 14 11:12
poelcat sounds good, maybe loop back on this next week Apr 14 11:12
jlaska definitely a collab effort ... I think QA can provide a draft Apr 14 11:13
adamw we'll discuss it in the qa meeting tomorrow Apr 14 11:13
tk009 kk Apr 14 11:13
*jlaska queues for topic Apr 14 11:13
adamw practically speaking it's likely to wind up on -test-list anyway :) Apr 14 11:13
poelcat and we could put it to the test for the preview release Apr 14 11:13
tk009 anymore we want to say on this or should we move n? Apr 14 11:14
tk009 on* Apr 14 11:14
poelcat onward Apr 14 11:14
tk009 2) SOP's - Discuss the status of the Introduction Email SOP, creating a master SOP page (like Infrastructure group) as a home for this SOP and the Housekeeping SOP. Apr 14 11:15
arxs next please Apr 14 11:15
tk009 I am not sure where this was left Apr 14 11:15
tk009 I was working on the email sop but missed allot of the feedback Apr 14 11:15
adamw right, i'd like to have the introduction email thing done and dusted Apr 14 11:15
poelcat i don't think we decided where all SOPs should live Apr 14 11:15
poelcat or how to group them Apr 14 11:16
tk009 poelcat had a good idea that we creat a home for our SOP's in infrastructure Apr 14 11:16
poelcat well, create them LIKE infrastructure Apr 14 11:16
tk009 there is an SOP page Apr 14 11:16
poelcat but have our own front page for SOPS Apr 14 11:16
adamw i don't really mind, and i don't think it's that important until we have at least two =) Apr 14 11:17
poelcat we probably don't need to discuss at length, just have someone create it Apr 14 11:17
poelcat adamw: we do now Apr 14 11:17
tk009 we have housekeeping and the email Apr 14 11:17
adamw oh yes. woo. Apr 14 11:18
tk009 two my brother =) Apr 14 11:18
adamw ok, so who wants to create it? poelcat? Apr 14 11:18
tk009 where is beland when we need him =) Apr 14 11:19
adamw hehe Apr 14 11:19
poelcat okay Apr 14 11:19
poelcat i'll do it Apr 14 11:19
adamw alright, so i move we let poelcat JFDI Apr 14 11:19
adamw we trust him right guys? :) Apr 14 11:19
tk009 word! Apr 14 11:19
tk009 okay, moving on Apr 14 11:19
tk009 3) Continue the discussion on the time allowance for NEEDINFO response. There seemed to be agreement on a different time frame for rawhide. Apr 14 11:19
iarlyy he's the man xD Apr 14 11:20
tk009 was I correct in that statement? Apr 14 11:20
iarlyy tk009: I don't understood about is this topic Apr 14 11:20
tk009 I need to explain it better Apr 14 11:20
iarlyy I wasn't present in the last meeting Apr 14 11:21
tk009 right now we have a policy of 30+30 days before we close a no response NEEDINFO Apr 14 11:21
tk009 we set the NEEDINFO flag wait 30 days Apr 14 11:21
tk009 if no reponse we set a NEEDINFO reminder for 30 days Apr 14 11:22
tk009 if no reponse we close it Apr 14 11:22
tk009 in the last meeting we talked about rawhide needing a quicker response Apr 14 11:22
iarlyy close without any reminder? Apr 14 11:22
tk009 if there is no reponse to the NEEDINFO reminder in 30 days, yes we close it Apr 14 11:23
tk009 that is the current policy Apr 14 11:23
tk009 that is to long for a response IMO for rawhide Apr 14 11:23
tk009 how do others feel about this Apr 14 11:24
adamw we had something of a bunfight last week and didn't really come up with an agreement Apr 14 11:24
adamw i honestly don't really care that much Apr 14 11:24
tk009 I jsut want us "all" to be on the same page Apr 14 11:24
tk009 and 60 days does seem to long for rawhide Apr 14 11:25
tk009 however if no one cares we can leave it as is Apr 14 11:25
tk009 I did ention the agenda wasn't up to par thisweek Apr 14 11:26
tk009 =) Apr 14 11:26
iarlyy 1/3 of total time for a fedora version development Apr 14 11:26
*poelcat still thinks set to NEEDINFO for 30 days w/ warning, then close Apr 14 11:27
tk009 okay well adam spoke, anyone else on this? Apr 14 11:27
poelcat but if people really think 30 + 30 is needed then i'm okay with trying it out Apr 14 11:27
adamw sure, but where's the harm? we close bugs to keep the database sane, it doesn't have any particular relationship with the rawhide release cycle Apr 14 11:27
tk009 I'll be honest I like 30 and close better Apr 14 11:27
arxs 15+15 for rawhide and 30+30 for live Apr 14 11:28
adamw but again, i don't really mind either way, i don't think it's a huge issue. Apr 14 11:28
tk009 we are gridlocked again lol Apr 14 11:28
adamw but no-one seems to be clinging to their position like grim death Apr 14 11:29
tk009 no they don't Apr 14 11:29
tk009 I can if you like =) Apr 14 11:29
adamw hehe Apr 14 11:29
tk009 30 days and close Apr 14 11:29
tk009 that is what I would like Apr 14 11:29
tk009 I ma sticking to that Apr 14 11:29
poelcat one way around this is to let the triager decide how nice they want to be Apr 14 11:29
tk009 yes Apr 14 11:29
poelcat w/ a set minimum of 30 days Apr 14 11:29
adamw good point Apr 14 11:29
adamw maybe those who want to close after 30 can Apr 14 11:29
adamw but the 'group standard' will be 30+30, so if we have enough people at some point to do a regular stale NEEDINFO sweep, that will be how they handle it Apr 14 11:30
poelcat i like it Apr 14 11:30
arxs +1 Apr 14 11:30
adamw alright! kudos poelcat Apr 14 11:30
adamw anyone opposed? Apr 14 11:30
tk009 moving on =) Apr 14 11:31
iarlyy it's ok for me Apr 14 11:31
tk009 4) - Status report on the progress with this page and Adam's -devel email. I could have missed it but I didn't see the email yet on -devel. Apr 14 11:31
tk009 afk a min bio Apr 14 11:31
adamw sorry, yeah, i didn't get it done yet Apr 14 11:31
adamw had a short week last week Apr 14 11:31
adamw i'll get it in soon I promise :) Apr 14 11:31
adamw anything else on that topic? Apr 14 11:32
poelcat not from me Apr 14 11:32
tk009 I don't have anything on that either Apr 14 11:33
tk009 jsut wondering if i had missed something Apr 14 11:34
adamw nope, don't think so - beland's not here so he can't talk about anything he's done... Apr 14 11:34
tk009 the last thing then is the stock responses Apr 14 11:34
tk009 I didn't finish going through them Apr 14 11:34
tk009 but will have that done by my close of the day Apr 14 11:34
adamw alright Apr 14 11:35
tk009 and what is a first in the time I've been here, we have time left Apr 14 11:35
adamw i feel like last night i thought of something i wanted to mention in the meeting and now i don't remember it at all Apr 14 11:35
adamw i'll let you know if it comes to mind :) Apr 14 11:35
tk009 open floor if anyone has something they want to say Apr 14 11:36
adamw any of our new members here? how's everything going for you guys? Apr 14 11:36
tk009 I don't think any are here atm Apr 14 11:36
poelcat in a few weeks Apr 14 11:36
poelcat we'll need to start working on this BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Fedora11 Apr 14 11:36
arxs very good Apr 14 11:37
*comphappy did not have time to get metics packaged for the fedora server sorry Apr 14 11:37
*tk009 thinks its not hte 16th. yet =) Apr 14 11:37
poelcat i will take the lead with filing the tickets with red hat, etc. Apr 14 11:37
tk009 I have wondered how that all is done Apr 14 11:38
tk009 jds2001 did it last time I think Apr 14 11:38
poelcat tk009: described here BugZappers/HouseKeeping#Task_Breakdown Apr 14 11:38
poelcat we've done it together since the beginning Apr 14 11:38
tk009 well I know we've kind of lost jds2001 Apr 14 11:39
poelcat nothing to discuss today, but since we had time just wanted to get it out there Apr 14 11:39
adamw arxs: great Apr 14 11:39
poelcat we've done it several times now so most of the wording is probably solid for the notifications Apr 14 11:40
poelcat but can always be improved :) Apr 14 11:40
poelcat that's all i've got for today Apr 14 11:40
tk009 same for me, anyone else have anything? Apr 14 11:40
arxs i workes on 90 bugs sine last week. hope dcbw is happy with my work Apr 14 11:40
adamw arxs: awesome! great job Apr 14 11:40
tk009 email him and ask him Apr 14 11:40
adamw arxs: have you checked with him? Apr 14 11:40
arxs yes by mail and irc but dont get a clear answer Apr 14 11:41
tk009 busy maybe Apr 14 11:41
arxs on the other hand jessy, the other triager is very happy with my work Apr 14 11:41
tk009 if it wasnt bad you are fine is y guess Apr 14 11:41
adamw yeah, i think if dan had any problems he would've mentioned it :) Apr 14 11:42
adamw he's not the shy retiring wallflower type, hehe Apr 14 11:42
tk009 nope lol Apr 14 11:42
arxs ok. good to now Apr 14 11:42
tk009 okay, I guess that is it then Apr 14 11:42
arxs know i mean Apr 14 11:42
tk009 thank you all for coming =) Apr 14 11:43
adamw yep...we're done early, everyone go for the donuts. oh, wait, irc meetings have no donuts Apr 14 11:43
adamw curses Apr 14 11:43
tk009 and don't forget triage day is after the meeting Apr 14 11:43
adamw yep Apr 14 11:43
adamw not sure if we have any new folks today but people can get together to work or triage or blocker bugs Apr 14 11:43
arxs of course Apr 14 11:43
adamw i will be around but probably not too active, i have a gigantic pile of mail to catch up with from the long weekend Apr 14 11:43
tk009 I do as well Apr 14 11:44
tk009 but want to get together on the blockers Apr 14 11:44
tk009 so when its good for you let e know please Apr 14 11:44
tk009 me* Apr 14 11:44
adamw ok Apr 14 11:44
tk009 damn that M key Apr 14 11:44
adamw if a discussion starts up while i'm not around send me a ping Apr 14 11:44
tk009 kk Apr 14 11:44
tk009 that is it for the meeting then, back to work everyone =) Apr 14 11:45

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