From Fedora Project Wiki


  • tk009
  • jds2001
  • iarlyy
  • mcepl
  • poelcat (meeting lead)
  • wwoods
  • JStizzle
  • John5342
  • jamundso
  • adamw

Previous Meeting and Mailing list Follow-up

  • SOP (Introduction Email) - It was decided by vote that newly applying BugZappers will be required to send an introduction email to the fedora-test-list to before acceptance into the "fedorabugs" group.
  • Wiki Front Page drafts - After discussion, the decision currently is to use User:Tk009/bugzappers (with modification) as the starting point for updating the wiki. However, adamw has created a draft as well here: User:Adamwill/Draft_Bugzappers, that will need to be reviewed before any final decision.
  • Wiki tracking draft - here : BugZappers/Tracking - There was full agreement on the combining of the Active Triagers and components wiki pages. Per the discussion in IRC and the mailing list, all information not explicitly related to Active Triagers or components on this page will be removed and recreate on separate pages. Discussion then moved to the page name and concern that in might be confusing, however no decision on a name change was reached during the meeting.

New Items

  • bugbot - bugbot has now been added to #fedora-bugzappers. Thank you mkanat.
  • Bug Blocker Day - poelcat will be holding a "Bug Blocker Day" on Monday 2009-03-16, in #fedora-bugzappers. In attendance will be maintainers, Quality Assurance and Release Engineering. The discussion will focus on blocker bugs for the beta. All BugZappers are strongly encouraged to attend.
  • Meeting Day and Time - After reviewing the information on Bugzappers_meeting_matrix, the most chosen day and time is 1700UTC on Tuesday's. This time slot is already reserved. End of meeting time prevented further discussion.

Follow-up Actions

  • SOP Introduction Email draft - TK009 will create an SOP draft outlining the introduction email procedures and requirements.
  • BugBot reference guide - Unassigned - Find a link to, or create a reference guide explaining the capabilities of bugbot.
  • Bug Work Flow png - After the meeting John5342 edited the work flow png, it has been reviewed and excepted and will be uploaded later today.

IRC Transcript

---poelcat has changed the topic to: Bug Triage Meeting Mar 10 11:00
-->jamundso (n=chatzill@ has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 10 11:00
mcepl hello Mar 10 11:00
poelcat bugzappers unite! Mar 10 11:00
tk009 =) Mar 10 11:00
poelcat mcepl: good afternoon Mar 10 11:00
mcepl please, no Mar 10 11:00
John5342 hi all Mar 10 11:01
*mcepl got hit by the bad memories of his childhood in the Communist Czechoslovakia Mar 10 11:01
poelcat mcepl: sorry about that Mar 10 11:01
*poelcat thinking more super heros Mar 10 11:01
iarlyy hello Mar 10 11:01
mcepl poelcat: I thought so Mar 10 11:01
poelcat jds2001: still around? Mar 10 11:02
jamundso Fedora Twin powers. Form of - a meeting! Mar 10 11:02
poelcat are we waiting for anyone else? Mar 10 11:02
tk009 I do not believe so Mar 10 11:03
poelcat let's go Mar 10 11:03
poelcat a few news notes to start Mar 10 11:03
poelcat we now have bugbot in our channel! Thanks mkanat Mar 10 11:03
mcepl I expected hords of newbies ... Mar 10 11:03
poelcat does anyone know of a guide that explains what bugbot can do? Mar 10 11:03
mcepl yey!!! Mar 10 11:03
mcepl poelcat: I got hit with admin privileges, so I will have to probably learn it myself Mar 10 11:04
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poelcat okay, i guess we'll learn as we go Mar 10 11:04
John5342 i havent but just being able to write bug XXXXXX and have a description come up is useful Mar 10 11:04
poelcat John5342: i mostly like it for the instant url to click on Mar 10 11:04
<--valente1 has quit ("Leaving.") Mar 10 11:04
John5342 exactly Mar 10 11:04
JStizzle ohai Mar 10 11:05
poelcat next topic.. blocker bugs Mar 10 11:05
poelcat JStizzle: hi Mar 10 11:05
poelcat BugZappers/HouseKeeping/Trackers Mar 10 11:05
John5342 maybe mkanat might be able to send us to a tutorial or something Mar 10 11:05
poelcat as we triage bugs we want to be on the look out for bugs that could derail the F11 release Mar 10 11:06
poelcat bugs that should definitely be fixed before the release go on the 'F11Blocker' Mar 10 11:06
mcepl John5342: send /msg to bugbot with list -- that's a list of categories (I believe) and then you can do help <command> Mar 10 11:06
poelcat and "nice to have" bugs go on the 'F11Target" Mar 10 11:06
<--ankit has quit ("Off for the day !!!") Mar 10 11:07
poelcat is everyone familiar with how to tag a particular bug as a blocker or target? Mar 10 11:07
JStizzle no Mar 10 11:07
iarlyy i'm not Mar 10 11:07
John5342 just put F11Blocker or similar in the blocks field Mar 10 11:07
JStizzle ok. Mar 10 11:08
mcepl JStizzle: in the bug form there is a field "Blocking bugs" and there you fill number of blocks which the current bug should block. Mar 10 11:08
poelcat you can also use the alias Mar 10 11:08
mcepl yeah Mar 10 11:08
poelcat QA/ReleaseCriteria provides some guidance on what bugs are considered blockers vs. target Mar 10 11:08
poelcat any questions before we move to the main agenda? Mar 10 11:09
poelcat thanks to tk009 for putting the agenda and announcement together! Mar 10 11:09
jds2001 oops Mar 10 11:09
iarlyy poelcat: no for me, I will read it after meeting Mar 10 11:09
poelcat on a related note I will be organizing a bug blocker day for next monday 2009-03-16 Mar 10 11:10
poelcat i'm planning to have it on the #fedora-bugzappers channel Mar 10 11:10
poelcat i'll invite all the maintainers, QA, releng, etc. to go through all of the blocker bugs for the beta Mar 10 11:10
wwoods don't put a bug on F11Blocker unless you think it would actually be worth delaying the release until that bug is fixed Mar 10 11:10
poelcat so we have a good idea how we are looking for releasing the beta Mar 10 11:11
wwoods but if a bug causes disk corruption, or *widespread* installer failure, or similarly Very Bad Things Mar 10 11:11
wwoods then please, put it on there - and as quickly as possible! Mar 10 11:11
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poelcat wwoods: thanks i also referred folks to QA/ReleaseCriteria Mar 10 11:12
poelcat alright first agenda item is to finalize our process around granting 'fedorabugs' group Mar 10 11:13
wwoods indeed, and thanks! Mar 10 11:13
poelcat there was mailing list discussion about what to do Mar 10 11:13
mcepl and don't hesitate to put something on F11Target -- maintainers will move the bug to Blocker if necessary anyway Mar 10 11:13
*wwoods re-lurk Mar 10 11:13
*jds2001 has been behind on f-test reading. what is the issue? Mar 10 11:14
poelcat it seemed most (2/3) people responding were in favor of a short email Mar 10 11:14
poelcat jds2001: the CLA requirement went away Mar 10 11:14
tk009 yes the reason for out weight the reasons against (IHMO) Mar 10 11:15
John5342 apart from wiki access. that still requires CLA Mar 10 11:15
poelcat we'd like people to introduce themselves to get 'fedorabugs' group so we can better retain and work with people Mar 10 11:15
jds2001 sounds reasonable. Mar 10 11:15
JStizzle I like that idea Mar 10 11:16
poelcat is there anyone here at today's meeting that is against requiring a short intro email along the lines I suggested on f-test-list ? Mar 10 11:16
*poelcat waits 60 secs Mar 10 11:17
tk009 stick a fork in that one, its done =) Mar 10 11:17
poelcat if you're here, you're a voting member :) Mar 10 11:18
poelcat and it appears no voting members have voted no Mar 10 11:18
poelcat okay so it has passed Mar 10 11:18
poelcat who would like to write the SOP page? Mar 10 11:18
poelcat nothing too serious... guessing less than 1/2 a page Mar 10 11:19
tk009 I can do a draft and let adam fix it Mar 10 11:19
poelcat tk009: thank you Mar 10 11:19
jds2001 porbably won't need fixing, it's pretty simple : Mar 10 11:19
jds2001 :) Mar 10 11:19
tk009 to hear you tell it =P Mar 10 11:19
tk009 you read what I written in the past Mar 10 11:19
poelcat speaking of adam, next topic is the wiki front page upgrade Mar 10 11:19
poelcat adam is shooting for a draft of it today, but is away for part of the day Mar 10 11:20
poelcat so we'll need to check back next week Mar 10 11:20
tk009 agree, beland isn't here either Mar 10 11:20
poelcat was there any other feedback or things people wanted to discuss about it? Mar 10 11:20
poelcat i think tk009 is the only one that commented on the mailing list Mar 10 11:20
*mcepl just notes that our beloved Zimbra finally delivered my novel to fedora-test list Mar 10 11:20
tk009 everyone please speak your mind on this issue Mar 10 11:21
tk009 even if you jsut joined the zappers today its your wiki Mar 10 11:21
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John5342 so far i like tk009s page. just thing responsibility is a strong word though Mar 10 11:21
mcepl I like the table, but thought that we should keep it Unix-y ... "one page for one thing", so get rid of the top and bottom sections Mar 10 11:21
*poelcat likes mcepl's tag line Mar 10 11:22
bhna rdieter: last part: Mar 10 11:22
*John5342 thought we were talking about front page Mar 10 11:22
tk009 we are Mar 10 11:23
tk009 mcepl is ahead of us me thinks Mar 10 11:23
iarlyy I found "FixingBugs" in docs pages, I think it's important... explaining close status ( bugzilla ) Mar 10 11:23
iarlyy add - Mar 10 11:23
tk009 that should be part of the front page iarlyy? Mar 10 11:23
iarlyy no Mar 10 11:23
iarlyy just a quick lisk or something like that Mar 10 11:24
iarlyy **link Mar 10 11:24
poelcat i think the question here is should the front page link to lots of things or ONLY the next step someone might want to take? Mar 10 11:24
tk009 I felt the latter was the best course Mar 10 11:25
John5342 probably only the next step. thats why i like tk009 one Mar 10 11:25
poelcat iarlyy: JStizzle jds2001 any thoughts? Mar 10 11:26
jds2001 i have to admit im completely lost at this point :( Mar 10 11:26
poelcat tk009: do you have the two page links handy? Mar 10 11:26
iarlyy no for now. Mar 10 11:26
JStizzle poelcat: the latter. Mar 10 11:26
poelcat jds2001: some folks would like to rework the front page for bugzappers... two proposals were put forth Mar 10 11:27
JStizzle poelcat: it needs better logical order Mar 10 11:27
John5342 jds2001: User:Beland/BugZappers vs User:Tk009/bugzappers Mar 10 11:27
JStizzle poelcat: right now it is overwhelming and confusing and has no logical order. Mar 10 11:27
dash123 poelcat: i think the wiki should be in a linear fashion, or else the multiple links just get "lost in transition" Mar 10 11:27
JStizzle poelcat: I like tk009's best. Mar 10 11:27
tk009 one thing to think about... Mar 10 11:28
tk009 beland has done a lot of work on the wiki Mar 10 11:28
tk009 I want him to keep doing it =) Mar 10 11:28
JStizzle tk009: I love how "dedicated group of individuals" just links to the active bugzappers page.. that is perfect and seamless. Mar 10 11:28
poelcat are there any element's of beland's page that would be good to integrate? Mar 10 11:28
jds2001 i like tk009's too - short and sweet. Mar 10 11:28
dash123 me too Mar 10 11:29
JStizzle anything else goes either on "Getting Started" or beyond. Mar 10 11:29
JStizzle perfect Mar 10 11:29
tk009 I thought the wording on belands for responsibilities was better than mine Mar 10 11:30
tk009 it was shorter, mine might be a little redundant Mar 10 11:30
jds2001 indeed, it is shorter Mar 10 11:30
JStizzle meh. Mar 10 11:30
John5342 i just think Responsibilities should be Taks or Aims or similar Mar 10 11:30
JStizzle tk009: you have a formatting error, but its trivial Mar 10 11:30
tk009 fix please JS? =) Mar 10 11:30
JStizzle ok. Mar 10 11:31
poelcat since i like how beland calls out the documentation we have Mar 10 11:31
JStizzle tk009: fixed. Mar 10 11:31
tk009 thank you Mar 10 11:31
JStizzle np Mar 10 11:31
poelcat but maybe we could link to it vs. listing it all Mar 10 11:31
mcepl my vote is tk009+ -- we should keep it short and sweet; see my novel in fedora-test to explain why I think we shouldn't waste that much time with detailed description of what needs to be done Mar 10 11:31
JStizzle poelcat: I like the idea of a list there.. we can make it shorter by using beland's list instead. Mar 10 11:32
iarlyy i like of tk009's but, i also like of documentation part of beland draft Mar 10 11:32
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JStizzle mcepl: your novel hasn't made its way to my zimbras yet ;) Mar 10 11:32
John5342 i think the more technical pages should be laid out more like belands but tk009 has it right for the front page. keeps it simple and to the point Mar 10 11:32
iarlyy an idea, could be merged... Mar 10 11:32
poelcat sounds like most people are in agreement about a simple start page and think this flows well from what we discussed last week Mar 10 11:33
poelcat in terms of starting with a good front page and then building pages out from there Mar 10 11:33
poelcat we can point adam to our discussion here as he seeks to merge the two pages Mar 10 11:33
JStizzle tk009: can I put beland's responsibilities on your page under responsibilities to see how it looks? Mar 10 11:33
adamw *lurk lurk* Mar 10 11:33
tk009 of course Mar 10 11:34
JStizzle adamw: how's the class going? Mar 10 11:34
dash123 the links under beland's documentation are quite good i think, the bugzilla primer *should* be there, so maybe that should be integrated into tk009's Mar 10 11:34
adamw JStizzle: done for today Mar 10 11:34
mcepl tk009: I would put fedora-test list more prominently -- that's the most important what we want from them -- we can pick them on the list and tell them whatever we need to tell them, but they have to come Mar 10 11:34
iarlyy example: in tk009's draft haven't any information of our tools Mar 10 11:34
JStizzle adamw: what did you learn? Mar 10 11:34
adamw let's'd never actually looked in my initrd before. Mar 10 11:34
adamw aside from that, not much. :) Mar 10 11:34
poelcat this is great discussion and thanks for everyone for giving your thoughts! Mar 10 11:35
jds2001 adamw: lsinitrd ftw :) Mar 10 11:35
adamw jds2001: doesn't exist in rhel! gotta learn to use cpio Mar 10 11:35
poelcat can we move offtopic discussion to #fedora-bugzappers please? Mar 10 11:35
mcepl adamw: mc Mar 10 11:35
mcepl is in RHEL Mar 10 11:35
adamw sorry, blame the instigators Mar 10 11:35
JStizzle ok guys, how do you like this? User:Tk009/bugzappers Mar 10 11:35
mcepl yes, sorry Mar 10 11:35
jds2001 oh, rhel - yeah, i didnt know about lsinitrd for awhile and tore them apart manually. Mar 10 11:35
mcepl all: please, let's move off-topic to bugzappers; we don'ŧ have time for this Mar 10 11:36
poelcat we've got another page to discuss :) Mar 10 11:36
poelcat BugZappers/Tracking Mar 10 11:36
poelcat should we discuss this week or wait until the front page is set? Mar 10 11:36
*poelcat gave feedback on f-test-list as did tk009 Mar 10 11:37
poelcat others should do the same :) Mar 10 11:37
iarlyy when beland is present Mar 10 11:37
John5342 i like the new tracking page unless somebody comes up with a better draft Mar 10 11:37
tk009 agree Mar 10 11:38
JStizzle I like the tracking page as well Mar 10 11:38
*poelcat is concerned there are too many things on it Mar 10 11:38
tk009 my agree was to iarlyy Mar 10 11:38
mcepl I did above (keep the table, move the rest somewhere else) Mar 10 11:38
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jamundso i like it, and nominate adamw for mkinitrd :-) Mar 10 11:38
poelcat and if we are going to have stats someone has to commit to do thing them diligently every week Mar 10 11:39
JStizzle hah. Mar 10 11:39
adamw can't the stats get done automatically? Mar 10 11:39
adamw if not, it's never going to work Mar 10 11:39
poelcat adamw: IMHO it would best be part of comphappy's metrics tool Mar 10 11:39
mcepl adamw: yes, you can write a script which will run XML-RPC queries to collect the data and then provide data to the table. ;-) Mar 10 11:40
adamw mcepl: as poelcat says Mar 10 11:40
JStizzle do we just poll the new tickets once a week or something? Mar 10 11:40
mcepl yeah, sure Mar 10 11:40
adamw mcepl: it shouldn't be too hard to write some kinda linky from comphappy's script Mar 10 11:40
mcepl JStizzle: there is a XML-RPC interface to bugzilla Mar 10 11:40
mcepl also, I use whines for the similar thing, works pretty well, except you get 4MB+ email every week. ;-) Mar 10 11:41
*adamw votes we all agree to dump it on comphappy, it's his fault for not showing up ;) Mar 10 11:41
tk009 hehe Mar 10 11:41
poelcat adamw: he couldn't come :) Mar 10 11:41
adamw seriously, though, let's ask him if it's something his script could do. Mar 10 11:42
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poelcat back to the Tracking page... i count it presenting information on 4 different topics Mar 10 11:42
poelcat to mcpel's tag line above i think this is too many Mar 10 11:42
adamw i think we had decent agreement on the list that it should cover components and who's doing each one, and that should be it... Mar 10 11:43
poelcat and makes the page too long and overwhelming Mar 10 11:43
tk009 it is to many I feel as well Mar 10 11:43
tk009 the finding bugs, goals Mar 10 11:43
poelcat i definitely like how beland merged ActiveTriagers into Components Mar 10 11:43
tk009 yes but that was about all that should have been done Mar 10 11:44
JStizzle yes, indeed. Mar 10 11:44
poelcat what do people think about the page name? Mar 10 11:44
poelcat is it too close in name to "Trackers" which is the tracking bug page? Mar 10 11:45
*poelcat can go either way Mar 10 11:45
tk009 I think it is to close, I have confused it once already Mar 10 11:45
JStizzle I think the average english-speaking human being can differentiate between "Trackers" and "ActiveTriagers" ;) Mar 10 11:45
John5342 i dont think that can be decided untill we settle on how it is going to be split/not slit Mar 10 11:45
tk009 lol Mar 10 11:45
JStizzle tk009: whoops. sorry. haha Mar 10 11:46
JStizzle unless you mean that "Trackers" could be misconstrued to *mean* "Triagers" then yes. Mar 10 11:46
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JStizzle that would be confusing to a newbie. Mar 10 11:46
poelcat so there is general agreement that the page BugZappers/Tracking (name TBD) Mar 10 11:47
poelcat should contain the section... Mar 10 11:47
poelcat BugZappers/Tracking#Component_and_Triager_List Mar 10 11:47
mcepl What's in a name? That which we call a rose Mar 10 11:47
mcepl By any other name would smell as sweet Mar 10 11:47
poelcat anything else? Mar 10 11:47
JStizzle sure.. tracking page.. you'd expect to see who is tracking what. Mar 10 11:47
JStizzle but a link would also be fine.. I could go either way as well. Mar 10 11:47
poelcat why Triaging instead if it is based on people's actions Mar 10 11:48
poelcat ? Mar 10 11:48
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JStizzle poelcat: I don't understand the question Mar 10 11:48
poelcat JStizzle: what parts of Tracking should stay or go? Mar 10 11:49
poelcat s/Tracking/the Tracking page Mar 10 11:49
JStizzle well.. the name is vague and misleading Mar 10 11:49
JStizzle for what it is. Mar 10 11:49
poelcat JStizzle: right we make that TBD for now Mar 10 11:49
adamw it's really not that important Mar 10 11:49
adamw sort it out on the list Mar 10 11:49
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poelcat adamw: good point... we have other topics left to cover :) Mar 10 11:50
tk009 the list doesn't bite people =) Mar 10 11:50
iarlyy please... other crazy idea of me Mar 10 11:50
iarlyy the components page should be changed for it ( Tracking replace Components), and components without triage should be named like orphan... or something like that Mar 10 11:50
poelcat everyone okay w/ moving on? Mar 10 11:50
tk009 I am Mar 10 11:50
mcepl +1 Mar 10 11:50
JStizzle yep Mar 10 11:50
jds2001 +1 Mar 10 11:50
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poelcat iarlyy: thanks we can consider that on the list discussion Mar 10 11:51
John5342 +1 Mar 10 11:51
iarlyy ok Mar 10 11:51
poelcat next topic.... updating the bug work flow diagram Mar 10 11:51
poelcat tk009: ? Mar 10 11:51
tk009 Mar 10 11:51
tk009 its done and I have uploaded the new .png Mar 10 11:51
mcepl poelcat: what's the problem? Mar 10 11:51
tk009 if for some reason this is incorrect, I can put the old right back Mar 10 11:52
poelcat tk009: it looks like the old one? Mar 10 11:52
tk009 no change is needed to the working of NEEDINFO Mar 10 11:52
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adamw the page looks to still be using the old image Mar 10 11:52
mcepl tk009: oh yes, there is no NEEDINFO anymore Mar 10 11:52
jds2001 there sort of is. Mar 10 11:53
tk009 I meant workding Mar 10 11:53
tk009 grr sorry about my typing Mar 10 11:53
tk009 my understanding of the change was to remove the needinfo to new Mar 10 11:54
tk009 did i bork that? Mar 10 11:54
John5342 according to history tk009 has never touched the image or page. did you upload to the correct location? Mar 10 11:54
tk009 yes and I see the correct image Mar 10 11:55
tk009 current14:27, 10 March 2009736×462 (28 KB)Tk009 (Talk | contribs) (changed the work flow: NEEDINFO no longer flows back to NEW.) Mar 10 11:55
John5342 thats odd. got cahing issues perhaps Mar 10 11:55
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poelcat revisit next week? Mar 10 11:56
poelcat 4 minutes to go Mar 10 11:56
poelcat next topic.... Changing our meeting time? Mar 10 11:56
poelcat everyone had a chance to fill out the time matrix? Mar 10 11:56
JStizzle meeting time needs to be on Mar 10 11:57
John5342 i got an item too. not a priority though Mar 10 11:57
JStizzle it is currently incorrect. Mar 10 11:57
tk009 I corrected it Mar 10 11:57
poelcat Bugzappers_meeting_matrix Mar 10 11:57
JStizzle tk009: I still see 1400 UTC Mar 10 11:57
JStizzle poelcat: I voted.. when is the deadline to vote so we can get it rolled out? Mar 10 11:58
poelcat JStizzle: great question! Mar 10 11:58
JStizzle as it stands, the most popular meeting time is 1700 UTC. Mar 10 11:59
adamw on tuesday. Mar 10 11:59
mcepl poelcat: sorry, haven't filled the matrix -- the same time for me Mar 10 11:59
tk009 the wiki is caching check the history =) JS Mar 10 11:59
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JStizzle tk009: yeah.. caching fail. sorry. Mar 10 11:59
John5342 17utc on tuesday loses tk009 though Mar 10 11:59
tk009 no it wont Mar 10 12:00
JStizzle adamw: yes, on tuesday, not everyday. thanks for correcting me. :) Mar 10 12:00
tk009 I will adjust Mar 10 12:00
JStizzle cool Mar 10 12:00
adamw JStizzle: you're welcome, it's a service i provide with enthusiasm! :D Mar 10 12:00
JStizzle :D Mar 10 12:00
poelcat is 17:00 utc / tues free on the master meeting schedule? Mar 10 12:01
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poelcat if so let's propose that time and get a vote on the list Mar 10 12:01
John5342 how about nope Mar 10 12:01
JStizzle nope Mar 10 12:01
iarlyy nop Mar 10 12:01
adamw bah, fedora packaging committee doesn't sound very important! Mar 10 12:01
poelcat okay, we're overtime now Mar 10 12:01
JStizzle we'll have to meet in *gasp* ANOTHER CHANNEL Mar 10 12:01
JStizzle adamw: haha. Mar 10 12:01
poelcat JStizzle: i'd prefer if we could stay here Mar 10 12:01
adamw sorry kde folks Mar 10 12:01
JStizzle oh for heavens sake, ok. Mar 10 12:01
adamw to -bugzappers ? Mar 10 12:01
JStizzle indeed. Mar 10 12:02
tk009 yesum =) Mar 10 12:02
adamw go ahead and discuss your heathen desktop, you crazy kde kids Mar 10 12:02
poelcat we're having another triage day so everyone is welcome on #fedora-bugzappers Mar 10 12:02
poelcat everyone is welcome when we aren't having a triage day too :) Mar 10 12:02
poelcat thanks everyone! Mar 10 12:02

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