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Time: 2009-09-01 0500 UTC

Place: #fedora-meeting on Freenode


(meetBot commands)


  • 76 open rawhide bugs
  • add @input-methods to Package Selection screen
  • fontconfig-2.7.2 in rawhide and f11 update
  • splitting up lohit-fonts
  • new ibus icon
  • harfbuzz indic test suit
  • FTBFS for knm_new-fonts, fonts-ISO8859-2, UnihanDb
  • ibus-anthy icon


juhp #startmeeting i18n 05:00
zodbot Meeting started Tue Sep 1 05:00:06 2009 UTC. The chair is juhp. Information about MeetBot at 05:00
zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 05:00
dychen hi juhp 05:00
tagoh3 hi 05:00
pravins hi juhp 05:00
fujiwarat hi 05:00
juhp hi guys 05:01
juhp welcome to our biweekly i18n meeting 05:01
phuang_ hi 05:02
juhp #topic I18N/Meetings/2009-09-01 05:03
juhp oops 05:04
juhp #topic F12 05:04
juhp beta freeze is at the end of this month - so about 4 hours of devel left 05:04
juhp ugh 4 months, lol 05:04
juhp this getting silly - 4 WEEKS 05:05
juhp any concerns about f12 schedule? 05:05
dychen juhp: What's our features in F-12? 05:06
juhp I guess there are still various work/features we might hope to land this month - various some ibus improvements, yum plugin, xkb maps for indic inscript? 05:08
juhp any others I am forgetting? 05:08
juhp dychen: hmm might be good to list then for f13 on the wiki beyond official fedora features 05:09
juhp if no comments then let's move on 05:09
juhp #topic rawhide bugs 05:10
juhp 05:10
juhp 76 open rawhide bugs we own or are tracking 05:10
juhp anyone have any particular issues they want to discuss? 05:11
juhp bug 518395 05:12
buggbot Bug medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, add @input-methods to Package Selection screen 05:12
juhp looking increasingly unlikely 05:12
dychen juhp: So we still install every im by default? :-P 05:14
juhp that is what we are still doing for now 05:14
juhp I don't really want to make any change until we have a reliable easy way of doing post-install 05:15
juhp perhaps we should just add a uninstall script to ibus ;-P 05:15
tagoh3 heh 05:16
juhp I noticed that ubuntu actually does something like that on their live spins: removing unwanted packages at the end 05:17
juhp of installation 05:17
juhp but anyway 05:17
juhp might make sense to uninstall IMEs for other langs at that time but that is another issue 05:17
juhp tagoh3: do you think it is worth the pain to turn off @input-methods for f12? 05:18
dychen juhp: But users have to specify want/unwant at some point anyway. 05:19
juhp indeed 05:19
juhp dychen: they can still do going down into the package customization menu 05:19
tagoh3 juhp: hmm, dunno. it may depends on how many people uses IM on non-CIJK languages. 05:20
juhp of course appearing on the top-level would be much easier - though it doesn't solve the I only want one IME problem 05:20
juhp tagoh3: enough to make their questions common anyway iirc 05:21
dychen juhp: Not sure it is appropriate to specify the IM on regional setting. 05:22
dychen Kaio: What does Window 7/Vista do about this issue? 05:22
phuang_ dychen, it is a solution 05:22
juhp dychen: yeah perhaps better not to install and auto-install on login? though it is a bit annoying 05:23
juhp dychen: region setting? 05:23
dychen phuang_: Yeah , I think Win XP (and 2000 maybe) do in that way. 05:23
juhp anyway I am proposing to postpone this to f13... 05:23
phuang_ dychen, I think Window has different localization versions. And each version will install default IME for the location 05:23
juhp right 05:24
tagoh3 juhp: yeah.. and that requires restarting desktop.. 05:24
juhp hmm 05:24
dychen phuang_: They do, and for english version, you can also set IM in region setting. 05:24
juhp tagoh3: can't we starting ibus after that? 05:24
juhp and imsettings 05:25
tagoh3 juhp: we can if we don't care of xim 05:25
juhp ah yeah 05:25
juhp well maybe for first session it is ok 05:26
phuang_ dychen, yeah. But it does't install IMEs in install-time. Or maybe installed some, but does not enable any ime 05:26
tagoh3 juhp: or we can't - guess imsettings won't be installed without IM deps, so far at least. 05:26
dychen phuang_: Yes they do. You can tick the Asian language support during the installation. 05:28
juhp tagoh3: perhaps we could install imsettings by default? 05:28
juhp anyway 05:29
tagoh3 juhp: yep 05:29
dychen phuang_: 05:29
phuang_ dychen, right 05:29
juhp how is rawhide fontconfig? 05:30
paragan we got new fontconfig-2.7.2 in rawhide now 05:30
juhp bug 518161 05:30
buggbot Bug medium, low, ---, besfahbo, NEW, "contains" expression seems not working on the fontconfig rule 05:30
paragan will be testing it with new lohit-fonts-2.4.2 05:31
* juhp notes it is being pushed to f11 too 05:31
juhp paragan: cool 05:31
paragan yes 05:31
juhp (should be interesting;) 05:31
paragan we also plan to split lohit-fonts in per font tarball release 05:32
juhp hmm guess devel might have been enough for now ;) 05:32
juhp paragan: aha 05:32
paragan yes devel is enough for now 05:33
juhp (I meant fontconfig:) 05:33
juhp anyway hope there is time to test fontconfig in rawhide before f11 gets pushed... 05:33
paragan yes 05:34
juhp wonder if that is the only change 05:34
pravins splitting lohit-fonts will be really good for maintenance as well 05:34
juhp pravins: ok - sounds good then :) 05:35
paragan juhp, I see changelog which shows 10 commits since 2.7.1 05:35
juhp aha 05:35
paragan 3 of them for Windows 05:36
juhp hm 05:36
pravins next topic ^^ 05:40
juhp phuang_: the new ibus icon looks different! 05:40
phuang_ juhp, You saw the new icon? 05:41
juhp yeah :) 05:41
phuang_ juhp, I have built the new ibus include the new icons 05:41
juhp different to the old one I mean :) 05:41
juhp thanks 05:41
juhp just getting used to it :) 05:41
phuang_ No 05:41
juhp ? 05:41
phuang_ Just installed a set of icons in different size 05:42
juhp aha 05:42
phuang_ The last ibus uses 48x48, so the it looks not good 05:42
juhp ok 05:42
juhp any other topics to discuss today? 05:43
pravins harfbuzz indic test suit 05:43
pravins there are some discussion goind on harfbuzz list for making harfbuzz rendering engine compatible to new OT SPec 05:44
juhp recent rawhide seems ok to me mostly - though I had to install from a old-ish image to avoid anaconda backtraces 05:44
pravins same as Uniscribe 05:44
juhp pravins: I see - interesting 05:44
juhp does pango look ok? 05:44
pravins so behdad requested test cases for indic 05:44
juhp aha 05:44
pravins he want o/p as >OUTPUT: <1,0,0>,<5,10,30> 05:44
pravins >>Where the output tuples are glyph id, X and Y. 05:44
juhp hm 05:45
pravins anyone knows whats this glyph id and x, y?? 05:45
pravins i was trying to prepare first draft for same 05:45
juhp maybe better to ask? 05:46
pravins hmm 05:46
pravins but new OT specs 1.6 has lots of changes 05:46
pravins many new feature tags are introduces in it 05:47
pravins for indic script 05:47
pravins might we will need to update lohit-fonts as well with this new feature may be 05:47
pravins 05:48
juhp tagoh3: will we rename knm_new-fonts? 05:48
juhp pravins: hmm dunno - guess it might be a lot of work? 05:49
tagoh3 juhp: hmm, sure - I'm not still fully understanding though. 05:50
pravins yeah, but firstly rendering engine need update w.r.t OT spec 05:50
juhp ah yeah 05:50
juhp pravins: not sure if/when that might happen? 05:50
pravins this work is going on for harfbuzz 05:51
juhp tagoh3: sounds like underscore breaks fontspackages, so might be easiest or as you mentioned do a workaround in package? 05:52
juhp aha 05:52
tagoh3 juhp: right 05:52
juhp hope mailhot can fix droid issue before beta... 05:52
tagoh3 juhp: well, that makes sense if we do get rid of any exceptions from the policy though. 05:53
juhp tagoh3: aha - so there are already other exceptions? 05:53
tagoh3 there are some - not font specific but in the package naming policy. 05:53
juhp ok sure 05:54
juhp tagoh3: is knm_new installed by default for ja now? 05:54
tagoh3 juhp: I don't think so 05:54
juhp ok 05:54
juhp paragan: do FTBFS have to be priority/severity high?? 05:55
paragan I guess no 05:56
paragan cause we are having source but just its upstream verification can not be done as upstream url is down 05:56
juhp paragan: for fonts-ISO8859-2 ? 05:56
paragan oh! is it set to high? 05:57
juhp all (3) of them, yes 05:57
juhp dychen: any idea about UnihanDb? 05:58
paragan then reporter considered it as High priority 05:58
juhp paragan: they are filed by ftbfs :) 05:58
juhp bug 511680 05:58
buggbot Bug high, high, ---, pnemade, ASSIGNED, FTBFS fonts-ISO8859-2-1.0-20.fc11 05:58
juhp bug 511482 05:59
buggbot Bug high, high, ---, dchen, ASSIGNED, FTBFS UnihanDb-5.1.0-7.fc11.1 05:59
paragan and that is nirik I guess 05:59
dychen juhp: That's because it tooks too long to build. 05:59
juhp please have a look anyway 05:59
juhp dychen: haha 05:59
juhp hmm 05:59
dychen So I was profiling it. 05:59
juhp ok 05:59
juhp I see 05:59
juhp please add a comment anyway 05:59
juhp anyway let's stop the meeting here if noone has anything else needing attention? 06:00
fujiwarat phuang_: tagoh3: Do you know any background of ibus-anthy icon? 06:01
juhp fujiwarat: scim-anthy? 06:01
* paragan closed bug 511680 06:02
buggbot Bug high, high, ---, pnemade, CLOSED RAWHIDE, FTBFS fonts-ISO8859-2-1.0-20.fc11 06:02
phuang_ yeah 06:02
* juhp wishes we could change it to something more meaningful 06:02
fujiwarat It's crown icon. 06:02
phuang_ ifrom scim-anthy 06:02
tagoh3 from scim-anthy 06:02
juhp fujiwarat: or you mean the upstream story? 06:02
phuang_ I don't know why crown 06:02
fujiwarat I checked anthy home page but there is no icon. 06:03
juhp fujiwarat: translating, ashie-san wrote "don't ask... ever" iirc 06:03
juhp in his blog long ago 06:03
juhp or maybe on the mailing list? 06:03
fujiwarat Personally I don't like the icon :) 06:03
juhp fujiwarat: me neither 06:03
juhp I encouraged tagoh3 to change it for fedora for scim-anthy ;-P 06:04
dychen fujiwarat: You can "borrow" gcin's jp icon. :-P 06:04
tagoh3 it should be a user contribution - just a hope to becomes a king of japanese IM IIRC 06:04
fujiwarat tagoh3: thx 06:04
juhp fujiwarat: how about stealing an icon from uim say? 06:04
tagoh3 juhp: what's the icon? 06:05
juhp like あ 06:05
fujiwarat It's ok if it was suitable from scim-anthy. 06:05
fujiwarat If it can be changed, I'd like to consider the design. 06:05
tagoh3 juhp: it's not for IM icon but to indicate the input mode. they use the same crown for IME icon though. 06:05
juhp anyway my "secret" disruptive plan is to try to get rid of the ibus IME icons completely if possible ;o) 06:05
juhp do they? hmm 06:06
juhp maybe I hid it or misremember perhaps 06:06
juhp haven't played with uim in a while anyway 06:07
juhp fujiwarat: anyway I support changing the ibus-anthy icon 06:07
tagoh3 need to create new one from scratch if we want to replace 06:07
juhp tagoh3: why? 06:07
juhp fujiwarat: any ideas for a replacement? 06:07
tagoh3 juhp: no better icons for _anthy_ I meant :) 06:08
juhp I think あ icon would be an improvement 06:08
tagoh3 juhp: aha - thought you don't like a crown anyway 06:08
juhp I don't see a strong need for something anthy specific 06:08
juhp tagoh3: I don't 06:08
fujiwarat Yes, right. I just thought alphabet 'A' with red pen ;) 06:09
juhp it is completely meaningless IMHO 06:09
juhp fujiwarat: A for anthy? hmm I dunno 06:09
juhp (the crown I meant) 06:09
juhp maybe we just need a different UI anyway 06:10
juhp at least the new ibus icon made me think so :-/ 06:10
tagoh3 juhp: just imagine from "improvement" you are about to work on it which is based on a crown icon, but anyway. 06:11
fujiwarat Probably we may discuss this later. I just wanted to know the background. 06:11
juhp tagoh3: better crown? :) 06:12
tagoh3 juhp: heh. you said you don't like a crown :) 06:12
juhp fujiwarat: I agree if anthy adopted some meaningful icon that would be better 06:12
juhp tagoh3: I just trying to parse :) 06:13
tagoh3 sure 06:13
juhp dunno I only suggested using something like uim's ja_hiragana.svg 06:14
juhp fujiwarat: sure - hope we can ship something better that makes sense 06:15
fujiwarat OK, I see. 06:15
juhp thanks for bringing it up :) 06:16
juhp #endmeeting 06:17

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