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< QA‎ | Meetings


People present (lines said):

  • jlaska (155)
  • adamw (71)
  • kparal (22)
  • robatino (14)
  • Oxf13 (14)
  • jskladan (13)
  • zodbot (5)
  • pjones (4)
  • hicham (3)
  • lmacken (2)
  • Viking-Ice (2)
  • Southern_Gentlem (1)



Previous meeting follow-up

  1. jlaska will discuss CommonBugs entry for RHBZ #552423 with halfline
    COMPLETED - Updated Common_F13_bugs#gnome-panel-crash
  2. Adamw will propose a document 'What do proventesters test for'?
    COMPLETED - Drafted User:Adamwill/Draft_proventesters_instructions and will send to mailing list for review this week
  3. jlaska to check-in with lmacken on the status of
    INPROGRESS - Have not yet heard back from lmacken, he might be away?
    lmacken is swamped this week, but will respond time permitting
  4. Someone needs to check with bodhi on when 'proventester' karma is required for critpath packages
    Same as above
  5. jlaska to update to include link to proventester page
    COMPLETED - adamw posted several updates to QA, QA/Join and QA:Updates_Testing
    jlaska was still a bit confused about several items on QA/Join and took an action to post changes to the list for feedback
  6. adamw to forward wwoods a good explanation of the nss-softokn problem scenario to ensure autoqa catches it in future
    No updates this week, keep on for next week
  7. jlaska to add autoqa FIXME links for a wiki page describing how to update repoinfo.conf when branched release is available, linked from the existing branched SOP pages
    COMPLETED - Updated How_to_update_AutoQA_repoinfo.conf, currently included in Category:AutoQA

Fedora 13 QA Retrospective

Owner - User:Jlaska
Jlaska organized Fedora_13_QA_Retrospective feedback into a list of QA recommendations for Fedora 14.
Next steps...
Need to clean up the page a bit, but expect to send this to the list for comments by Wednesday.

Proventester status

Owner - User:Maxamillion
Adam Miller announced that the proventesters wiki page (QA/JoinProvenTesters) is no longer a draft. We have several TRAC requests to join the proventesters group. User:Adamwill asked whether we can start processing proventesters requests. What's next, and who is needed to take it there?
Next steps

AutoQA initscripts test validation

Owner - User:Jskladan
Josef asked for help in validating a new round of SysVinitscript AutoQA tests. See announcement and instructions and blog. Progress continues, and more help is needed to close out this task.
Next steps...
Continue to support volunteers


Owner - User:kparal
The immediate goal is to automate the QA:Package_Update_Acceptance_Test_Plan. The team met and discussed task priorities and agreed on the following prioritization
Next steps...
  • jlaska - set up testing instance of autotest-server
  • jlaska - find a machine where resultdb may run (it can be VM, publicly accessible preferred)
    INPROGRESS - awaiting additional access details for Fedora-infrastructure has enabled access to existing QA hardware.
  • kparal - implement *quick* virtualization support -- autoqa ticket#181
  • jskladan, wwoods - bodhi hook needs to be tested -- autoqa ticket#87
  • jskladan, kparal, wwoods - continue implementing and testing resultdb -- autoqa ticket#145

Open discussion - <Your topic here>

Fedora 14 desktop testing

Owner - User:Adamwill
Adam informed the team that he was working on expanding the desktop test coverage for Fedora 14 to, in addition to GNOME, include KDE, XFCE and LXDE.
Next steps ...
Expects to have tests out to the mailing list for review soon

AutoQA Media Kit Sanity

Owner - User:Liam
Liam has been working to automate the media kit sanity tests (see Category:Installer_Image_Sanity_Test_Cases)
Next steps ...
Continue to refine test
User:robatino asked if the tests were also comparing the actual ISO size with the ISO header size (see RHBZ #585006).

Fedora-13-x86_64-DVD.iso boot problems

Owner - User:Adamwill
Adam noted that there are several reports of the Fedora-13-x86_64-DVD.iso failing to boot for users on [1] [2] [3]
  4. .

    The Fedora-13-x86_64-Live.iso and Fedora-13-i386-DVD.iso both work, but for some reason the x86_64 DVD does not.
    Next steps ...
    Please direct further discussion to RHBZ #597283

    Upcoming QA events

    • 2010-07-08 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #1
    • 2010-07-15 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #2
    • 2010-07-22 - Pre-Alpha Rawhide Acceptance Test Plan #3
    • 2010-07-23 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #1
    • 2010-07-30 - Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #2

    Action items

    1. jlaska to propose a clean-up of the Critical Path Packages wiki to be a suitable home for critpath information

    IRC Transcript

    jlaska #startmeeting Fedora QA Meeting 15:00
    zodbot Meeting started Mon Jun 14 15:00:15 2010 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at 15:00
    zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00
    jlaska #meetingname fedora-qa 15:00
    zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-qa' 15:00
    adamw yo 15:00
    jlaska #topic Gathering critical mass 15:00
    jlaska adamw: howdy 15:00
    hicham i wan't to talk about drafting mozilla addons packaging guidelines 15:01
    hicham there are none for the moment 15:01
    jlaska we'll be without wwoods today 15:01
    * kparal waves 15:02
    * jskladan is here! 15:02
    jlaska hicham: You're welcome to discuss that topic in the open floor. But just a heads up, this is the quality assurance meeting, you probably want to raise that topic with the package reviewers? 15:02
    jlaska howdy kparal jskladan 15:02
    jlaska wwoods is on PTO today, and hopefully public holiday for Liam and Rhe 15:02
    hicham jlaska : is there another meeting for that ? 15:02
    adamw i think that'd be devel group stuff? is there an official devel group meeting? 15:02
    jlaska I was going to suggest sending your questions to 15:03
    jlaska I've seen a lot of similar discussion topics there. 15:03
    jlaska adamw: would you suggest the devel mailing list? 15:03
    jlaska hicham: 15:04
    jlaska hicham: specifically, I think you might be looking for 15:04
    adamw no, you seem right with packaging list. 15:04
    jlaska alright, let's get started 15:05
    * adamw feels like a Kafka character 15:05
    jlaska #topic Previous meeting follow-up 15:05
    jlaska #info jlaska will discuss CommonBugs entry for RHBZ #552423 with halfline 15:06
    jlaska #info Completed, see 15:06
    adamw i believe you should take your issue to Committee 493, Subcommittee 2398-A 15:06
    jlaska adamw: :) 15:06
    jlaska #info adamw will propose a document 'What do proventesters test for?' 15:06
    adamw done! 15:07
    adamw 15:07
    jlaska saweeet! 15:07
    adamw it's mostly just talking points for now 15:07
    adamw i'm not happy with how word-y it is 15:07
    adamw but if people think it's going in the right direction, i'll make it tighter with a second draft 15:08
    jlaska adamw: awesome, thanks for drafting. I'll queue up for a post-meeting read 15:08
    adamw i'll post it to the ml after the meeting 15:08
    jlaska thanks 15:08
    kparal with quick read it sounds good 15:08
    jlaska #info jlaska to check-in with lmacken on the status of 15:09
    adamw thanks kparal 15:09
    jlaska I've sufficiently annoyed lmacken by email, so I'll wait to hear back. 15:09
    jlaska Unless anyone else has updates on when bodhi karma will be re-enabled for critpath updates 15:09
    adamw nup. 15:10
    lmacken jlaska: sorry, i'm teaching professors all week.. I'll get back to you soon :) 15:10
    jlaska lmacken: no worries, you're always quick to respond ... so I assumed you were swamped 15:10
    jlaska lmacken: I'll turn off *annoy* mode for now! :D 15:10
    adamw or velociraptored 15:10
    jlaska heh 15:11
    jlaska this next item was really a follow-up to the above 15:11
    jlaska #info Someone needs to check with bodhi on when 'proventester' karma is required for critpath packages 15:11
    * lmacken on a conference call with the NY State senate now... 230 conference call with Yahoo!... just hired 2 co-ops that we're mentoring today, and teaching RIT profs all week... a little busy :) 15:11
    * Viking-Ice sneaks in a bit late as usual.. 15:11
    jlaska lmacken: no kidding, very cool! 15:11
    jlaska Welcome Viking-Ice :) 15:11
    jlaska next ... 15:11
    jlaska #info jlaska to update to include link to proventester page 15:11
    jlaska well, adamw did this for me already! 15:12
    adamw oh, i thought that was on my list =) 15:12
    adamw yeah, i've updated various places in the wiki 15:12
    jlaska I was going to ask about some thoughts on cleaning up the QA/Join page 15:12
    jlaska but adamw went to town on this 15:12
    adamw , , are all updated 15:12
    jlaska adamw: awesome, thank you :) 15:12
    adamw i noticed on the way through we should probably update too 15:13
    adamw currently it talks about 15:13
    jlaska I'll send some thoughts I had on cleaning up QA/Join to the mailing list 15:13
    adamw 'qa/releng' doing the testing 15:13
    jlaska adamw: ah, good catch 15:13
    jlaska should we keep the 'proposal unchanged' and move stuff to ? 15:14
    jlaska anyway, we can talk about that further post-meeting 15:15
    kparal we should link rather to final page than to proposal 15:15
    kparal which we do not :) 15:15
    jlaska yeah, that was my sense 15:15
    adamw the thing is, the 'final' page is completely different 15:16
    adamw and has nothing useful on it 15:16
    adamw all the interesting stuff is on the 'proposal' page 15:16
    jlaska right, it needs to mature quite a bit 15:16
    kparal yes, it should be redone 15:16
    jlaska I'll be happy to take a stab at cleaning that up ... unless anyone else is anxious to have it 15:16
    jlaska #action Clean-up critical path packages wiki to be a suitable home for critpath information 15:17
    adamw mostly the 'final' page just links to bits of the 'proposal' page :) 15:17
    jlaska yeah, that was my quick'n'dirty page a while back 15:17
    jlaska I can do better 15:17
    adamw ahh, okay, i thought it was the releng team i was subtly slagging off there ;) 15:17
    jlaska nope, it's cranes maska 15:18
    jlaska ;) 15:18
    jlaska alright, 2 more on the list ... 15:18
    jlaska #info adamw to forward wwoods a good explanation of the nss-softokn problem scenario to ensure autoqa catches it in future 15:18
    jlaska not sure if we still need to track that ... and wwoods is out today 15:18
    adamw oh yikes, i forgot to transfer that to my todo list so i didn't do it 15:19
    adamw queued up for this week 15:19
    jlaska adamw: cool, can you send it to the autoqa-devel@ list too? 15:19
    jlaska while wwoods is out, a group of us were going to try and test post-bodhi-update in his absence 15:19
    jlaska I don't know if we'll get to depcheck, but who knows 15:19
    jlaska #info jlaska to add autoqa FIXME links for a wiki page describing how to update repoinfo.conf when branched release is available, linked from the existing branched SOP pages 15:20
    adamw okay 15:20
    jlaska I created to discuss how to update the autoqa repoinfo.conf file ... will send to autoqa-devel list 15:20
    jlaska okay, anything else from last week that I missed? 15:21
    jlaska alright, main agenda ... 15:21
    jlaska #topic Fedora 13 QA Retrospective 15:22
    jlaska I've compiled all the feedback in the retrospective and come up with a draft of recommendations 15:22
    jlaska 15:22
    jlaska I'm not ready to open to the list just yet, I'd like to clean it up a bit further 15:22
    jlaska I plan to send this to the list for feedback by Wednesday of this week 15:23
    adamw cool 15:23
    jlaska so no action yet here, but I hope to have this out for consumption 15:23
    jlaska and then we can go through what's next etc... 15:24
    jlaska many of you are already working the next steps, which is good :) 15:24
    jlaska and speaking of ... 15:24
    jlaska #topic Proventester status 15:24
    adamw we sorta covered this above, really? 15:24
    jlaska adamw gave an update in the previous meeting follow-up, but I had this on as a standing item 15:25
    jlaska adamw: right on 15:25
    jlaska in terms of next steps ... I don't have any changes here 15:25
    adamw me either, we're waiting on releng for the most important bit, and we're working on our process 15:25
    jlaska #info review adamw's draft document guiding proventesters 15:25
    jlaska #info waiting for re-enabling 'proventester' karma for critpath packages 15:26
    jlaska I think that captures it, anything else? 15:26
    adamw nup 15:26
    jlaska adamw: kudos for tackling the QA/Join updates. I was struggling to figure out how best to incorporate the link 15:26
    jlaska alright, moving on ... 15:27
    jlaska #topic AutoQA initscripts test validation 15:27
    jlaska jskladan: I left this on as a topic from last week 15:27
    jskladan jlaska: sure thing 15:28
    adamw see my comment on the change - ideally i wanted to incorporate it into the existing mention of updates-testing, but couldn't think of a good way. 15:28
    jlaska jskladan: were there any updates you wanted to give, or next steps to discuss? 15:28
    jlaska adamw: yeah, that's what I was struggling with too! 15:28
    jskladan so as you all probably know, I created a document <> on how to review, and sent an email to fedora test list 15:28
    adamw i keep meaning to mention this in a blog post, didn't get around to it yet - sorry! 15:28
    jskladan for now, we have one new guy - Scott M Fergusson, who's working on the task 15:29
    jlaska yay Scott, thanks for helping! 15:29
    adamw awesome 15:30
    jskladan and two more contacted me via email today, so there is a great possibility of extending the possible AutoQA contributors even further :) 15:30
    jlaska moohahahaha 15:30
    jskladan so it seems like it had some effect after all :) 15:30
    jlaska nice work jskladan! 15:31
    jskladan and might be a great starting point for new contributors/people interested in joining QA forces :-D 15:31
    adamw that's great 15:31
    adamw yep for sure 15:31
    adamw thanks for backing the project 15:31
    jlaska jskladan: how do you want to handle this topic going forward? Shall I take it off the agenda, or leave it on for weekly updates? 15:32
    jskladan i think you can leave it in the agenda 15:32
    jlaska jskladan: okay, will do 15:32
    jskladan we all like to hear about others joining and contributing, don't we? :) 15:32
    * adamw does 15:33
    jlaska YES! 15:33
    jlaska :D 15:33
    * kparal votes for 15:33
    jlaska I wager Viking-Ice would vote for it as well 15:33
    adamw or shoot an arrow at it 15:34
    jlaska that counts as a positive vote, right 15:34
    jskladan and i'm still thinking about approaching Ray Chen - i'll probably write him some "hey, i saw your blog <> come join us" 15:34
    jskladan or smt like that 15:34
    adamw that's excellent, it's always a good idea to take a personal approach like that 15:35
    jlaska jskladan: so 3 new leads, cool 15:35
    jskladan so thats about it on initscripts review effort, if noone has anything more, i think we can go on with the agenda 15:35
    jlaska alright, thanks for the update 15:36
    jlaska similar theme, but different focus ... 15:36
    jlaska #topic AutoQA 15:36
    jlaska so Kamil led us through a priority discussion last week ( and helped get things focused 15:37
    kparal tried to :) 15:37
    jlaska kparal: are you able to guide us through current tasks? 15:38
    kparal alright 15:38
    kparal so we decided our current priorities are: 15:38
    kparal * testing and finishing the Bodhi hook, because it is essential for many of our test cases 15:39
    kparal * having quick support of running selected test cases in virtual machines, because we start to have some test cases which we don't really believe they are absolutely safe 15:39
    kparal * getting testing instance of autotest-server and clients, so we can play with it and test new features rather than breaking our stable server 15:40
    * Viking-Ice shoots the vote high up in the air in stead of deep in the ground.. 15:40
    kparal * getting publicly accessible machine for resultdb if possible 15:40
    kparal * working on resultdb. We need to store the data and have some kind of simple form to explore it. that will allow larger audience to get familiar with our testing 15:41
    kparal I think that's all. these tasks have the highest priority, everything else may wait a while 15:41
    jlaska kparal: what happened to all the easy tasks! :) 15:41
    kparal some of them are not so hard, but others consist of many subtasks, that's true :) 15:42
    jskladan jlaska: you know the stuff, once you get to think about the simple tasks for a while, they become more complicated :-D 15:42
    jlaska hehe, so true 15:42
    kparal anyway, at least it helps us keep our focus 15:42
    adamw i find not thinking about it helps 15:42
    jlaska definitely, thanks kparal 15:42
    kparal yrw 15:43
    jlaska kparal: I should have an update on my action item for getting a new autotest-server shortly 15:44
    kparal great 15:44
    jlaska kparal: mmcgrath has been working hard to make available our 6 systems (and 1 virt guest (aka the autotest-server)). It appears to be mostly working, I just need to figure out how we'll use this for the time being 15:44
    * kparal looks forward and hopes he will not break it immediately :) 15:44
    jlaska kparal: anything else you'd like to track on this topic for next week? 15:45
    kparal I don't think so 15:45
    jlaska alright, thanks for the update kparal 15:46
    jlaska who wants open floor time? 15:46
    * adamw is good 15:46
    adamw oh 15:46
    jlaska #topic Open floor - <your topic here> 15:46
    adamw i should just briefly mention i'm working on expanding desktop testing for f14 15:47
    adamw to cover kde, xfce and lxde as well as gnome 15:47
    jlaska #topic Open floor - adamw and F14 desktop testing 15:47
    adamw in the early planning stages on that one, something should hit the mailing lists soon 15:47
    jlaska #info i'm working on expanding desktop testing for f14 to cover kde, xfce and lxde as well as gnome 15:47
    jlaska #info something should hit the mailing lists soon 15:48
    * jlaska gets friendly with meetbot 15:48
    jlaska adamw: nice, I gather that will be a welcome improvement 15:48
    adamw i hope so 15:49
    jlaska #topic Open floor - <your topic here> 15:49
    jlaska any other thoughts/concerns/haiku? 15:49
    jlaska If no other topics, I'll close the meeting in 2 minutes 15:50
    * adamw is short on poetic inspiration 15:51
    jlaska #topic Open floor - AutoQA media kit sanity tests 15:51
    kparal do we have robatino? 15:51
    jlaska robatino asked about this, so it might be worth noting in case others are interested 15:51
    robatino here 15:52
    jlaska robatino: howdy 15:52
    jlaska Liam has code in his private AutOQA branch to automate the mediakit sanity tests 15:52
    jlaska The tests he is automating can be found at 15:53
    robatino i was wondering if a test should be added to compare the actual ISO size to the ISO header size 15:53
    adamw oh, yeah, you found problems with that didn't you? 15:53
    robatino the live and netinst images currently fail that 15:53
    jlaska robatino: I don't know, to be honest. 15:53
    adamw what's the impact of the problem again? 15:53
    robatino not something to block, but just to track 15:53
    jlaska robatino: sure ... if you have any script or code to help validate, please add to 15:54
    robatino besides being inconvenient, we don't really know whether the images are just oversized, or corrupted as well 15:54
    jlaska robatino: did this first start with F-13 ISOs? 15:55
    robatino F12 Alpha, I think 15:55
    jlaska I think you have a bug tracking this already, right? 15:55
    robatino 15:55
    robatino it's against livecd-tools because currently that's the only way i know to reproduce it 15:55
    robatino it's probably a genisoimage bug though 15:56
    jlaska huff: you own livecd-tools bugs now? 15:56
    robatino someone good at python could probably throw in some test statements and track it to the source, then reassign to the correct component 15:57
    pjones robatino: are the images larger or smaller than the size listed in the headers? 15:57
    robatino larger 15:57
    pjones that's potentially valid 15:58
    pjones (though still an error) 15:58
    robatino of course, without knowing the cause, it 15:58
    jlaska pjones: do you know what writes out that ISO header? is that genisoimage as robatino suggests? 15:58
    robatino it's possible they could be smaller as well 15:58
    pjones that's genisoimage, yes 15:58
    jlaska okay 15:58
    jlaska well, sounds like more work is needed to pinpoint this 15:59
    adamw seems like we have enough time we should be able to pinpoint it, though 15:59
    jlaska right 15:59
    jlaska not sure what else is needed, I think this just needs a subject matter expert to review 16:00
    adamw this actually reminds me of something else, if we have a minute 16:01
    jlaska adamw: new topic? 16:01
    adamw yeah 16:01
    jlaska to close out this ... 16:01
    jlaska robatino: can you suggest the new test to Liam in the ticket 16:01
    jlaska and we'll continue monitoring this bug, perhaps Oxf13 or pjones have ideas to further isolate 16:02
    jlaska adamw: go for it 16:02
    robatino yes, i was planning to mention that, and also to make sure to distinguish between SI and IEC units for different media 16:02
    Oxf13 I'm here. 16:02
    jlaska robatino: cool, thanks 16:02
    Oxf13 what's the bug? 16:02
    jlaska 585006 16:02
    jlaska .bug 585006 16:02
    zodbot jlaska: Bug 585006 livecd-creator creates i386 and x86_64 ISOs which are larger than indicated by the ISO header - 16:02
    Oxf13 ah that. 16:02
    Oxf13 We were thinking about migrating over to libisofs to see if that changes anything, or if it's easier to work with 16:03
    Oxf13 shell execution within python is ugly 16:03
    jlaska Oxf13: anything you can think of to help robatino further isolate the bug? 16:04
    Oxf13 not really. 16:04
    jlaska is this libisofs change, that's with livecd-tools or something else? 16:04
    jlaska alright, let's move on ... we can talk further on this in the bug or in #fedora-qa 16:05
    jlaska adamw: take it away 16:05
    adamw okay 16:05
    jlaska #topic Open floor - adamw 16:06
    adamw so there's been a few forum threads where people have said they couldn't get a DVD burned from the f13 x86-64 ISO to boot, at all 16:06
    adamw their systems actually don't see it as a bootable disc 16:06
    adamw in each case, they could boot from the i686 DVD, or the x86-64 live 16:06
    adamw threads - , , 16:07
    adamw but obviously in many cases the dvd does boot fine 16:07
    Oxf13 jlaska: mostly pjones and I were looking at it for anaconda buildinstall and pungi, but lessons learned there should carry over to livecd-tools 16:07
    adamw i've no idea what could be causing this, the whole process by which a system identifies and boots from a bootable device is voodoo to me 16:07
    jlaska Oxf13: okay 16:07
    adamw just thought i'd mention it in case anyone knows more than me, or knows who could take a stab at figuring it out 16:08
    Southern_Gentlem adamw, and to majority of those that came into #fedora hadnt verified the iso and had bad downloads or where burning incorrectly 16:08
    Oxf13 adamw: x86_64 doesn't boot, but i386 does... that tickles something in my brain 16:08
    adamw there's also a bug report for this - 16:08
    Oxf13 I wonder if we're putting EFI info on x86_64 media, but not i386 media. 16:09
    adamw which oxf13 has commented on, so that may be the tickle point =) 16:09
    Oxf13 oh... 16:09
    adamw would the efi info also be on x86-64 live in that case? 16:09
    adamw the reporters say x86-64 live boots, iirc 16:09
    Oxf13 adamw: no, efi wouldn't be there. 16:09
    Oxf13 since it's DVD media, and that's my territory, I don't generally do anything with EFI so I don't think that's me 16:10
    Oxf13 or it 16:10
    * adamw didn't quite parse that last line 16:10
    jlaska comparing i386 and x86_64 "efi" files on the DVD's -- 16:11
    jlaska i386 has a # 16:12
    jlaska /EFI/BOOT/BOOT.conf file, but x86_64 does not 16:12
    jlaska anyhow, should we take the details to #fedora-qa 16:12
    adamw or the bug report, sure 16:12
    jlaska right on 16:13
    jlaska adamw thanks for raising this topic ... has me perplexed :) 16:13
    Oxf13 adamw: pungi is what creates the DVD isos, and it's during that creation one would have to make them efi bootable or not IIRC. And since I don't do that in pungi, I don't think it could be EFI that is causing issues. 16:13
    adamw Oxf13: ah, okay. 16:13
    jlaska for the logs ... this is 16:13
    jlaska .bug 597283 16:13
    zodbot jlaska: Bug 597283 Fedora 13 x86_64 DVD does not boot in some computers - 16:13
    jlaska okay folks ... thanks for your time 16:13
    adamw Southern_Gentlem: in the cases i'm looking at, the reporters have verified the burns and in some cases have actually booted the same disc successfully on other machines 16:14
    adamw Southern_Gentlem: i'm painfully familiar with bad burns, this doesn't look like that =) 16:14
    jlaska If folks want to continue, feel free to discuss on #fedora-qa or the mailing list 16:14
    jlaska thanks all! 16:14
    jlaska #endmeeting 16:14

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