I18N/Meetings/2009-06-09

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2009-06-09 0500 UTC on #fedora-meeting at Freenode

Contents

Agenda

Summary

  • Jens presented outline of current design/usage
  • Pravin mentioned problem of yum groupremove being evil for groups with cross-listed packages

Action Items

  • Jens will submit YumLangpackPlugin
  • Jens will look into setting up FWN i18n beat if we don't need to contribute continually
  • will have a regular bugs corner in future meetings

Log

juhp ok Jun 09 15:01
juhp welcome to the fedora-i18n meeting Jun 09 15:01
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juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2009-06-09 Jun 09 15:02
rahul_bhalerao hi juhp Jun 09 15:02
tagoh3 hi Jun 09 15:02
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*juhp looks around for more people Jun 09 15:04
juhp ok Jun 09 15:04
dychen_ hi juhp Jun 09 15:06
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pravins hi Jun 09 15:06
jni_ hi Jun 09 15:06
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paragn hi Jun 09 15:06
phuang hi Jun 09 15:07
juhp # Features/YumLangpackPlugin Jun 09 15:07
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juhp just wanted to update a little on the yum langpack feature Jun 09 15:09
paragn https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin Jun 09 15:10
juhp (sorry for the slow typing - got distracted by something else...) Jun 09 15:11
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juhp I'll update the feature with my latest thoughts but let me try to summarise here briefly Jun 09 15:13
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juhp so the idea is Jun 09 15:16
juhp probably to have meta packages for each language to enable automatic langpack installation for that language Jun 09 15:17
juhp which would pull in yum-plugin-langpacks Jun 09 15:17
juhp later there may also be whitelist/blacklist configuration available in the plugin config file at least for advanced users Jun 09 15:18
juhp the current locale based prototype already mostly works so need to add meta package processing to it Jun 09 15:19
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juhp the meta packages can live in comps and hopefully replace the conditional lang-support packages there Jun 09 15:20
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paragn k Jun 09 15:20
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juhp and also hope I can persuade firefox and thunderbird to get langpack subpackages Jun 09 15:21
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juhp pravins: earlier I had thought about involving system-config-language but I think with this model it is more transparent and UI independent Jun 09 15:22
juhp since it is enabled at the package level Jun 09 15:22
juhp any comments? Jun 09 15:23
tagoh3 so the plan is to put that meta data to yum repos? Jun 09 15:23
pravins juhp: yeah Jun 09 15:24
sflanigan How will you decide which packages are langpacks? The prototype uses some sort of naming convention, doesn't it? Jun 09 15:24
juhp tagoh3: if we drop the comps conditionals they would move to the plugin so it may be more open/neutral to leave them for now and make the plugin invoke groupinstall but that may be too ugly to implement not sure yet Jun 09 15:25
rahul_bhalerao will it check for installed base packages for that lang first? Jun 09 15:25
juhp rahul_bhalerao: yup Jun 09 15:25
dychen juhp: Shall we have a policy for lang pack naming? Jun 09 15:25
juhp dychen: that would be good but probably not possible in the f12 timeframe Jun 09 15:26
rahul_bhalerao in that case, is it the way gd,m checks or just the comps list in lang-group Jun 09 15:26
juhp sflanigan: good question - for now by hardcoding or yum groups Jun 09 15:26
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rahul_bhalerao hmm Jun 09 15:26
tagoh3 any thoughts for an approach like fonts? Jun 09 15:27
dychen juhp: In that case, well, we need to maintain a lang-pack list then. Jun 09 15:27
juhp tagoh3: ah interesting idea Jun 09 15:27
juhp hmmmm Jun 09 15:27
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juhp rahul_bhalerao: sorry? Jun 09 15:27
rahul_bhalerao most fonts will be available from base-fonts group even if the lang is not completely supported Jun 09 15:28
juhp rahul_bhalerao: if the base package is not installed nothing will happen, sure Jun 09 15:28
rahul_bhalerao juhp: I mean what all packages to be considered as base packages for the lang? Jun 09 15:29
juhp rahul_bhalerao: you mean how? as I said it is hardcoded for now Jun 09 15:29
dychen juhp: rahul_bhalerao: Not sure whether we want to involved it in gdm.... Jun 09 15:29
tagoh3 juhp: for instance, if any packages has separate subpackage for po files say, any helper scripts could generates a provide for that and picks up with yum? dunno. Jun 09 15:29
juhp rahul_bhalerao: no tagoh3 is referring to packagekit support ;) Jun 09 15:30
juhp I thought Jun 09 15:30
tagoh3 juhp: yep Jun 09 15:30
juhp tagoh3: ah right but that really needs changes to rpm I think Jun 09 15:30
rahul_bhalerao hmm ok :) Jun 09 15:31
juhp but i am not sure how to catch missing langpacks in general at runtime Jun 09 15:31
juhp tagoh3: for fonts it is done at the fontconfig level? Jun 09 15:32
tagoh3 juhp: only works for pango so far iirc. Jun 09 15:32
juhp ah right yeah Jun 09 15:32
juhp and I have seen some false positives from irc i think ;o) Jun 09 15:33
juhp but anyway Jun 09 15:33
juhp # FWN/Beats i18n Jun 09 15:34
juhp I was thinking we should contribute a little to Fedora Weekly News going forward Jun 09 15:34
juhp I think it would be a big burden and help give a little more attention to i18n work in fedora Jun 09 15:35
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juhp we already have our docs beat for relnotes so this is a small extension of that Jun 09 15:35
tagoh3 guess we may need more activities first.. Jun 09 15:37
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juhp I guess it just involves highlighting briefly i18n developments in the fedora space and updates would just be by best effort and when they occur Jun 09 15:37
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juhp tagoh3: hmm you mean empty would look bad? Jun 09 15:37
juhp I guess there must be other news beats that are not publishing every week Jun 09 15:38
juhp so probably creating one is harmless and then we can see how much we have to contribute with time Jun 09 15:38
juhp assuming that it seems we have nothing to lose Jun 09 15:38
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juhp I'll have a closer look and check Jun 09 15:39
tagoh3 juhp: if there are anything, that would be good though - just wonder how often it will happens. Jun 09 15:39
juhp occasionally is better than nothing :) Jun 09 15:39
tagoh3 of course it is. Jun 09 15:40
juhp but yeah time may be an issue - so ideally we need a volunteer :) Jun 09 15:40
juhp https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Beats is the beats page Jun 09 15:41
juhp # I18N/Bugs Jun 09 15:42
juhp the number of fedora-i18n-bugs has been creeping up over recent monthly so I'd like to do some triaging Jun 09 15:44
juhp I was supposed to send a list of f9 bugs for people to check/update/move to newer/close (ie (re-)triage) Jun 09 15:45
juhp but that is just the tip of the iceberg of course Jun 09 15:45
paragn yes we need to check i18n bugs Jun 09 15:46
juhp I think we will open a regular bugs to the meetings to focus more on them Jun 09 15:48
juhp bugs section, sorry Jun 09 15:48
juhp ok Jun 09 15:53
juhp those are all the topics on the agenda Jun 09 15:54
pravins juhp: one more from me Jun 09 15:54
juhp please Jun 09 15:54
pravins ## comps- yum groupremove Jun 09 15:54
pravins just one observation Jun 09 15:54
pravins while install group Jun 09 15:54
pravins s/install/remove Jun 09 15:54
juhp pravins: groupremove is "evil" :) Jun 09 15:55
pravins juhp: yeah Jun 09 15:55
pravins while removing gujarati support, it removed ibus-m17n also Jun 09 15:55
juhp nod Jun 09 15:55
pravins which is related with many other langs Jun 09 15:55
juhp pravins: but the plugin could help Jun 09 15:56
pravins just wanna bring this to your observation :) Jun 09 15:56
pravins juhp: thats will be too good Jun 09 15:56
juhp pravins: yum remove gujarati-langpack-support could remove all langpacks for gu for example Jun 09 15:56
pravins aha Jun 09 15:56
juhp  :) Jun 09 15:56
*pravins bit lucky s-c-l not doing yum groupremove ;) Jun 09 15:57
juhp but yeah I don't think groupremove could be used for that Jun 09 15:57
juhp so in that sense hardcoding is better and would also allow supporting repos without comps.... Jun 09 15:57
pravins yeah Jun 09 15:58
juhp ideally/better of course base packages should provide metadata to the plugin for their langpacks Jun 09 15:58
juhp I think it would not be that hard Jun 09 15:58
tagoh3 wonder if there are any way to have refcount among groups and avoid removing packages unexpectedly Jun 09 15:58
juhp tagoh3: hmm yeah - I think the idea people have is to rip out comps and replace it with something better but result would hopefully solve that problem Jun 09 15:59
juhp of course if that was already the case and rpm/yum were a little smarter this plugin would not be necessary... Jun 09 16:00
juhp ok I think we are out of time so unless anything else let's close the meeting in a couple of minutes Jun 09 16:01
juhp ok thanks for the meeting all! Jun 09 16:05

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